I have a question on glyphs. I run a 15-51-5 combat spec with almost all BIS gear. Obviously my glyphs are SS, rupture and snd. 3 or 4s/5r/5e rotation.

However, when I do 10 mans (well speed runs for big numbers.. Wow Web Stats) I find I do much better damage using a slice/expose armor/rupture rotation as no one in our 10 man sunders. I've found it to be beneficial to have EA up 100% instead of rupture. Obviously I keep up slice 100%. Would it be worth getting the EA glyph in place of rupture or snd in these runs?

Long story short: If I'm using an expose armor glyph, should I dump rupture or SND? Or am I better off not getting it?

When I first made the post with the "quick and dirty" rotations that ended up in the Pocket Guide my intention was not to give optimal rotations, simply to give easy ones that would prevent rogues who were unfamiliar with what's new in WotLK from embarrassing themselves. saedo is correct that a 2-4 SnD is a much more efficient use of CPs in combat's rotation. Something like 5s/5r/5e is very forgiving and easy at any gear level but is hardly optimal if you're running with BiS in 25mans.


Personally, I'd drop the Rupture glyph for the EA glyph and go with that. One thing to mention though is that EA is much more effective if you're running in a melee/hunter heavy raid (the parse you linked had 1 ret pally and one enh shaman and a feral tank besides you). You're getting good benefit from it because of that. If you had a feral tank but a mainly caster group I'd recommend keeping Rupture in your glyph/cycle and using EA only when you're able. (Something like 3s/5r/Xa.)

Seeing as I can't see your armory spec, I will assume that you have Seal Fate and Ruthlessness, as you run envenom. That means that having a Mutilate x2 portion of your rotation is already incorrect. With a mutilate build that includes both these talents, you want to be waiting for 4 or 5 combo points before envenoming or rupturing, and this can be with only one mutilate (Ruthlessness proc and then a critical Mutilate). As streaka said, priority goes with maintaining a full Hunger for Blood stack, then with Slice and Dice uptime (which shouldn't currently be an issue with the Slice and Dice glyph) and then Rupture uptime. Pre-stacking your HfB to 3 before entering the boss fight is also helpful to cut down on setup energy costs.

I'm currently using a [Reaper of Dark Souls] MH and [Webbed Death] OH as Combat spec with sword spec instead of CQC.

I picked up a [Fist of the Deity] tonight, so I may spec CQC. However, I'm not sure about the faster speed on the fist weapon. Will it make a difference?

I would say use the fist and put all the points into CQC. Fist has a higher max damage but a much lower minimum. Would have to check your spreadsheet to be sure.

Thanks for the suggestion, it helped quite a bit for the fights. I tested it on the dummy last night and it was slightly higher.

Ok, been browsing for a while and still cant decide what to do in my current situation. atm I run WD (zerk) IP / SR (goose) DP as mutilate.

Now I have another WD sitting in the bank not enchanted that I took the same night my SR dropped. (we actually had WD, TM, and SR drop all in 1 night, course I was the only rogue xD).

So I'm wondering do you guys think I'd see a noticable increase in DPS if I were to spend the change on zerking my other WD or should I zerk my SR now? I'm trying not waste too much gold with the changes coming in 3.1 idk if it'll be slow/fast or fast/fast or slow/slow!

Of course my top priorities (if you were to look at my armory) are t7.5 gloves ( yea :/ I do pve with deadly gloves) and down the road FotFF though I'm near the bottom of the line in EPGP for it in the guild at the moment, though I hear I'm not to bad off with grim toll bc it proc's more often that expected (read that somewhere on EJ).

I've also got foot of the vile deceit enchanted/gemmed but switched to dawn walkers because I was thinking more hit > being above expertise cap (I've run with 15 expertise and barely had problems).

So I'm open to comments, do I suck it up and zerk my other WD and see a nice increase in dps or do I zerk my SR or shall I wait. (i think i could goose the other MD, got those mats lying around).

edit: also we're currently working on sarth +3D so I guess that would be my main focus area of raiding atm.

You may be directing these questions towards the wrong crowd here. Personally, I would spend every last gold to get the absolute best out of my gear (I currently own two WD with berserking, two SR with Berserking and a CG also with Berserking). Regarding what you said about expertise and your gear, swapping out the chestpiece for the t7.25 to complete the set and switching in the Footwraps should net you a DPS increase. When you get the 7.25 gloves you can change back to the Recluse. You also really need to replace your green quality gems with blue quality ones, which would push you even closer to the expertise cap. As always, consult the spreadsheet to see what is the best DPS choices.

Since I'm not as familiar with other classes, what kinds of buffs and debuffs should I be looking out for when useing my combat, trinket and class cooldowns for the best optimization?

@Lunarmyst The few I can think of off the top of my head are:
Abom's might (blood dk's) / enhance shaman version(forget the name) / trushot aura : 10% increase in attack power
heroism / bloodlust : 40% haste
icy talons (frost dk) / windfury totem (enh shammy) : 20% melee haste
savage combat / arm's war Equiv : 2% damage bonus to poisoned targets (course this would be you right!)

Those are the ones off the top of my head, I thought ret pally's offered something else than the 3% crit (aka master poisoner / totem of wrath) but I cant remember.

@Armanewb
I took your advice earlier on the heroic dummy and was surprised at the results:
(note these are really rough b/c it was b4 class so I didn't screenshot or anything)

~3 or 4 minutes of combat with no cold blood but opening with garrote and IP/DP envenom
with recluse and dawnwalkers:
mh=WD(zerk) oh=SR(goose) recount reported dps at ~2175.
mh=WD(zerk) oh=WD(nothing) recount reported dps at ~2200.

comments: wd/wd I found myself with a much better uptime of 5 stack DP than with SR oh.

with heroes chest and footwraps (4 set bonus / 16 expertise):
mh=WD(zerk) oh=SR(goose) recount reported dps at ~2380
mh=WD(zerk) oh=WD(nothing) recount reported dps at ~2300

comments: I almost felt like I had too much energy at sometimes (good thing?) and with WD/WD I found myself with too much energy and too many DP stacks occuring(relatively speaking). With WD/WD I found myself pooling NRG multiple times when I had 4or5 cp's and 3/4 duration on S&D, rupture, and H4B. This combo'd with full stack's of DP's I should have probably been envenoming more to increase the buff uptime from it.

Also, I've stuck with green gems at the moment just because of the relative cost of switching them out. When I get valor gloves I'll definitely resocket for rare gems: wicked/deadly in yellows and bright/delicate in reds. Blues I still can't decide somethings I like getting the socket bonus on (helm for instance) so balanced/shifting or should i go with a +6 all stats (wouldn't that be 18 attack power(6str x 2 + 6 agi) and a little crit from the agi too?)

They do.

Also, Sunder Armor, Faerie Fire, Horn of Winter / SoE. There's also the Ret Pally Aura, or Imp Boomkin Aura for 3% haste. Ret Pally Aura or BM Hunters for 3% damage. Leader of the Pack or Rampage for 5% crit. Mangle/Trauma for bleeds.

Also, Curse of Elements, Imp Scorch, Misery (Imp FF), for your poison damage.

Most of these should be up 100%. Just need to wait the first few seconds for everyone to click their buttons for it.

I was looking for what the Penalty on your offhand was exactly...and I couldn't find a answer in the wall of text that are these postings.

50% untalented.

Ok so if your talented, Which I think any rogue pve or pvp is. Why does your offhand still not hit as hard as your mainhand? Or does it and I'm just seeing things... 50% debuff with a 50% dmg buff equals out to be normalized with MH hits. (which I know isn't true) So how does the math work when you are trying to calculate this..

Umm no. It's MH*0.5*1.5=MH*0.75. So 75% of the MH damage instead of 50%.

It boosts the offhand damage by 50% of its current power. So 50% of the 50% loss is gained back giving you a 75% offhand penalty fully talented.

Edit: I was slow.

Correct, you want the maximum usage time. However, there is some leeway in timing them for the majority of instances, for one reason or another (2min CD in a 3-4min or <2min fight, Haste pot - 1 per fight, AR, Master of Subtlety and Vanish).

I'm confuzzled, can anyone explain this in more dumbed down terms? AP isn't listed on the EP weight table, but since 1 STR = 1 AP I would assume AP alone is also worth 1 EP. On the pocket guide thread it also links to a wowhead lootrank where AP is valued as 1, so using this information I can only conclude AGI is twice as good as AP?

What am I missing?

On a side note, which EP table is most accurate? The one linked above is different than the one in the pocket guide thread.

Thanks!

Your assumption is correct. The EP values are all relative figures compared to a single point of AP being worth exactly 1 EP. Because of this, the EP table is a general guideline, as changing gear will always change the relative value of a given stat for your exact equipment.

EP weights vary according to your gear and spec so it's not possible to say what would be more accurate for you specifically. Generally posted EP weights are always a rough approximation, if you want accurate values you need to calculate them yourself from spreadsheet or similar.

The EP weight system for rogues compares all stats to AP so the value of AP is always 1 in it. And yes, one point in agility is roughly twice the value of one point in AP. What you're perhaps missing is that agility is also twice as expensive stat point for point when it comes to item budgets, for example you have 16 agility gems and 32 AP gems from scarlet rubies.

EDIT: Too slow, feel free to delete this

Point noted about item budget - I wonder if wowhead's loot ranking system takes that into account (hence why its AP is listed as 1 point).

I didn't know EP values were relative on gear though and just an initial approximation, good to know!

I have had varying answers to this question from rogues in game, but do I need my thieve's tools to pick locks, some have said that this requirement was removed and some said it wasn't. I am trying to make more room and being able to ditch that item would be nice.