Rogue: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 94

Nalikov · 01/23/09, 5:41 PM

Prior to the recent patch release, my poison setup for Mutilate was DP/IP due to the OH double proccing. After the recent fix on that I went back to IP/DP. I currently run MH Sinisters Revenge and OH Webbed Death. It seems that I have lost ground when that is all I have changed in relation to the combat rogue in the raids with me. Are my poison assumptions correct or is there a better poison setup at current gear levels?

Kmannkoopa · 01/23/09, 5:44 PM

Originally Posted by Zabathan

My question is in this situation, should I envenom even though SnD has such a long time left (and I might have less than a 5-stack of DP), refresh HfB even though it's not close to running out, do extra mutilates even though the combo points will go to waste, or wait for rupture to run out so I can reapply it even though my energy will cap?

I hit this situation all the time, and here is my reccomendation:

1. If your energy will not cap before Rupture runs out, then wait and Rupture.
2. If you would energy cap before Rupture runs out, then Envenom.

Remember, Envenom resets your Slice and Dice, and although combo points are built fast, it is nearly impossible to fit in 3 Envenoms before a Rupture wears off.

At least for me, my 5CP Envenoms hit for approximately the same amount of damage as a Mutilate,, and although I have no numbers to back it up, I highly suspect the 25 Energy saved makes up for the DP damage lost and the opportunity cost of wasted CPs.

Freyalis · 01/23/09, 5:51 PM

What you do at a point like that depends on just how long you have left on your timers. As long as you have, as you describe, 12s left on HfB my advice would be to pool for about 3s, then envenom, and mutilate again while under the envenom buff, after the 2nd mut you should have enough to refresh/restart rupture and refresh HfB after the rupture, If you get a horrible about of bad luck with Relentless Stikes, Ruthlessness and Crits and dont have enough for a Rupture after the envenom, just pool until HfB needs refreshing and then Mut again to start your rupture.

sasher · 01/23/09, 6:08 PM

Originally Posted by Murr

I would guess lower DPS using Anarchy given its slow speed and no dps advantage ala Sinister Revenge..if you could get a Webbed Death or two and go Mutilate then, you might see an upgrade. But like I said, guessing - you could just plug it into the spreadsheet and see what comes out.

I must be doing something wrong in the spreadsheet. Murder/Anarchy appears to do 500dps more than Clamity/Murder. I'll report back when I actually find my error.

Thanks though.

Genre · 01/23/09, 7:15 PM

Originally Posted by sasher

I must be doing something wrong in the spreadsheet. Murder/Anarchy appears to do 500dps more than Clamity/Murder. I'll report back when I actually find my error.

Thanks though.

Set to humanoid and running with the Murder talent?

sephfiroth · 01/23/09, 7:26 PM

Originally Posted by Nalikov

Prior to the recent patch release, my poison setup for Mutilate was DP/IP due to the OH double proccing. After the recent fix on that I went back to IP/DP. I currently run MH Sinisters Revenge and OH Webbed Death. It seems that I have lost ground when that is all I have changed in relation to the combat rogue in the raids with me. Are my poison assumptions correct or is there a better poison setup at current gear levels?

WD- MH, Sinister - OH.

IP- MH, DP - OH.

Kemistry · 01/23/09, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by sephfiroth

WD- MH, Sinister - OH.

IP- MH, DP - OH.

I was running w/ dual WD and picked up SR last night just to check it out. I went to a test dummy in IF and did 2 mins w/ each possible combo of WD/WD/SR and IP and DP. I got the best dps from SR(IP)/WD(DP). Am I failing at something?

Maltese · 01/23/09, 9:16 PM

Trying to see which would be better without raid buffs/debuffs on a target dummy isn't going to work.

Also 2 minutes isn't nearly long enough time to get a reasonable average of dps.

Nalikov · 01/23/09, 10:05 PM

Sounds like that could help, Ill give it a shot.

Vorril · 01/24/09, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by sephfiroth

WD- MH, Sinister - OH.

IP- MH, DP - OH.

Could someone please elaborate on this for me? I'm pretty sure that I'm missing something here because i don't really see how fast MH/slow OH makes a difference compared to slow MH/fast OH if DP is on the slow weapon and IP on the fast one in both scenarios. If anything aren't you gimping Sinister Revenge's raw 173 dps putting in the the OH?

Neto- · 01/24/09, 11:21 PM

Finishers (Rupture and Envenom) can apply your mainhand poison, but not your offhand poison; therefore, your mainhand weapon can apply poisons through Mutilate, swings and finishers, whereas your offhand can only apply poisons through Mutilate and swings. Instant Poison demands a fast weapon, so, if you choose to use the Instant Poison weapon in your MH for extra applications, it will have to be the fast weapon, since using a slow weapon with IP is largely inefficient. The extra Instant Poison damage gained by doing so is, usually, worth losing some Mutilate raw damage.

Vorril · 01/25/09, 1:09 AM

Ah thanks that makes a lot of sense! I knew i wasn't getting the whole picture.

Devonix · 01/25/09, 1:44 AM

Webbed Death has yet to drop for myself on my 25 Naxx runs so I'm still using OoR and SR as my daggers.
I've smashed some numbers together on the dolls and I'm still not convinced that OoR is in fact the better choice for a MH weapon because it's faster.

Should I continue to use SR in my MH as prior to the Mutilate changes or will the 1.5 speed on OoR prove to be more effective as a main hand weapon?

The poisons I have applied are;
IP - MH
DP - OH

PimpStar · 01/25/09, 1:50 AM

Originally Posted by Devonix

Webbed Death has yet to drop for myself on my 25 Naxx runs so I'm still using OoR and SR as my daggers.
I've smashed some numbers together on the dolls and I'm still not convinced that OoR is in fact the better choice for a MH weapon because it's faster.

Should I continue to use SR in my MH as prior to the Mutilate changes or will the 1.5 speed on OoR prove to be more effective as a main hand weapon?

The poisons I have applied are;
IP - MH
DP - OH

I ran 2.5m damage slow mh/fast oh and then swapped and noticed a considerable difference in dps with the fast mh winning easily, using the same poisons as you are. I also used the lower lvl 80 training dummy to compensate for the low hit I have in raid gear as I always have a boomkin with im ff.

My preferred testing is always around 2.5m damage mark it then make any changes I'm looking into.

Devonix · 01/25/09, 1:53 AM

Originally Posted by PimpStar

I ran 2.5m damage slow mh/fast oh and then swapped and noticed a considerable difference in dps with the fast mh winning easily, using the same poisons as you are. I also used the lower lvl 80 training dummy to compensate for the low hit I have in raid gear as I always have a boomkin with im ff.

My preferred testing is always around 2.5m damage mark it then make any changes I'm looking into.

Interesting.
I guess I'll just have to hit the dummy a bit longer and see how things pan out.
I'll get back to it.