I was wondering what kind of dps other rogues could get on target dummies (I cant consistently break 2550 which I thought seemed low)
In order to find out about other people's numbers I did a google search and I came across the idea on some forum of using shiv at 4 cps in a mutilate cycle.
Now I'm pretty sure that is a DPS loss especially with the change to shiv in the patch, but I figured I would ask anyway, is that possibly a good idea?
In order to find out about other people's numbers I did a google search and I came across the idea on some forum of using shiv at 4 cps in a mutilate cycle.
Now I'm pretty sure that is a DPS loss especially with the change to shiv in the patch, but I figured I would ask anyway, is that possibly a good idea?
I'm not going to dig up the posts with the math but the answer is no. Shiv should not be used in a PvE setting; it was meant to be a utility move for PvP and remains as such.
I sort of agree, in that I don't think the usual IP/DP/envenom raid spec works very well when undergeared. But there are other specs that work better in those low gear situations.
When I first hit 80 I was not trying to run the usual Mutilate raid spec, it always underwhelmed me at that gear level. Instead I levelled to 80 and did heroics for a while using an eviscerate spec with dual wound poison. This always felt like it worked a lot better. In late november I started hitting heroics in quest blues, I think I started out at around 1700-1800 dps on heroic bosses and went up from there, and was pretty much always top dps in any group at that time. But trying a IP/DP/envenom spec always felt horrible comparatively until I started reaching about 2200-2300 dps on heroic boss fights. It was around then that the usual raid spec finally started to feel that it was working better.
So, Kanan, I might recommend to you that you try fiddling with your mutilate spec to support eviscerate/WP/WP for a while until you gear up more from heroics. Instead of putting points in improved poisons, put them into improved eviscerate and get the evis glyph. Also, at this point you don't need to go all out for dps. Make sure you stick 1 or even 2 points into Improved SnD, it just makes it a whole lot easier to keep SnD up while you're getting used to the spec.
I was kind of thinking along the same lines, but I took it a step further, and went back to Combat. So, last night, I ran H CoS and did see an improvement. Unfortunately, I didn't break out my boss DPS, but I'm sure it was higher. On trash, I was doing ~1300... but then again, that's a lot of FoK on weak zombies. Regardless, I'm running WP/WP/Evis. I will give that some time, then go back and see how Mutilate goes after some Heroic gear. After all, being that Assassination is a viable raid spec, and arguably, THE spec, I do need to be comfortable with it.
I need some help picking a combat build for 3.1. In the early preview thread I saw 3 viable choices.
7/51/13
18/51/2
15/51/5
I know that poison damage has been buffed as well as armor pen rating. 7/51/13 would give me more armor pen and 18/51/2 would give me more poison damage. There is also the standard 15/51/5 build. What looks like the best choice at the moment?
Any consensus on [dropping the 2 points Opportunity and only dropping 1 point in Turn the Tables] versus [dropping all 3 points in TtT] - This is for freeing up points to go 3/3 in Master Poisoner.
I had a quick question regarding Envenom and its buff.
After casting Envenom and you cast Fan of Knives while the Envenom buff is up, does it give increased instant/deadly poison proc chances on all targets hit? -- I know there is no reason it shouldn't do this, but to me it would seem rather imbalanced on some fights (i.e. Sartharion with adds), and was wondering if anyone has done any testing to confirm that it actually works.
From the MANY posts I have searched the data seems to say AP is slightly better. I must be missing some mechanic on why AP is better but I have been unable to locate it. Everywhere I look I see AP as the way to go when it comes to gemming items, but was just curious as to the reason behind it.
I need some help picking a combat build for 3.1. In the early preview thread I saw 3 viable choices.
7/51/13
18/51/2
15/51/5
I know that poison damage has been buffed as well as armor pen rating. 7/51/13 would give me more armor pen and 18/51/2 would give me more poison damage. There is also the standard 15/51/5 build. What looks like the best choice at the moment?
I am wondering the same thing, as well as poison choices. Can anyone shed some light on the situation?
I've looked but not been able to find an answer, so hopefully someone does.
With poisons going on PPM system and being normalized on weapon speed, what are Mutilate's best dagger setup suppose to be? I also don't have more than 1 Sinister Revenge or Webbed Death so I wouldn't really be able to find when the servers come up. But I see SRx2 and I also see that WDx2. So what's the real answer? I also read that apparently MH is suppose to have a slow dagger and fast for OH, is this correct?
Edit: This is based on 3.0 gear
Edit: Since I'm asking for my hand to be held let me rephrase
I have read through pages and pages looking for this answer but I haven't seen any FIRM ANSWER. I can theorycraft but that doesn't answer my question. I can use common sense, but that doesn't answer my question. I know what my current setup is and am only questioning what others are saying because I cannot disprove them. So all I'm asking for is alittle incite.
From the MANY posts I have searched the data seems to say AP is slightly better. I must be missing some mechanic on why AP is better but I have been unable to locate it. Everywhere I look I see AP as the way to go when it comes to gemming items, but was just curious as to the reason behind it.
With the 4% boost from AP to Deadly Poison the slight advantage AGI gems had is closed/smaller.
Until we learn how useful crit is with the 4pt8 I wouldn't start re-gemming to AP if you gemmed AGI prior.
I've looked but not been able to find an answer, so hopefully someone does.
With poisons going on PPM system and being normalized on weapon speed, what are Mutilate's best dagger setup suppose to be? I also don't have more than 1 Sinister Revenge or Webbed Death so I wouldn't really be able to find when the servers come up. But I see SRx2 and I also see that WDx2. So what's the real answer? I also read that apparently MH is suppose to have a slow dagger and fast for OH, is this correct?
Edit: This is based on 3.0 gear
Edit: Since I'm asking for my hand to be held let me rephrase
I have read through pages and pages looking for this answer but I haven't seen any FIRM ANSWER. I can theorycraft but that doesn't answer my question. I can use common sense, but that doesn't answer my question. I know what my current setup is and am only questioning what others are saying because I cannot disprove them. So all I'm asking for is alittle incite.
Word of fair warning, this is just what I've gathered and it is not set in stone, as the usual answer is when a Spreadsheet is completely updated and accurate to 3.1's new mechanics we can be sure, but from what I've gathered the best setup to go into Ulduar with would be Dual-Sinister Revenge.
However, if you had two daggers of equal iLevel / Stats, you would want slow/fast (I assume its due to IP/DP and finishers proc'ing Instant Poison). However, even if you don't have Dual-Sinister Revenge I've heard that Sinister Revenge Main-Hand with Webbed Death Off-Hand is slightly inferior if not equal.
Why isn't 3/3 Master Poisoner chosen over 3/5 Close Quarters Combat in the cookie cutter pve mutilate specs? Seems to me you'd be trading 3% crit for 3% crit and the post Envenom buff to Deadly Poison application. Or am I just oblivious to some outlandish quirks in the mechanics making the crit from CQC better than of MP? :P
Why isn't 3/3 Master Poisoner chosen over 3/5 Close Quarters Combat in the cookie cutter pve mutilate specs? Seems to me you'd be trading 3% crit for 3% crit and the post Envenom buff to Deadly Poison application. Or am I just oblivious to some outlandish quirks in the mechanics making the crit from CQC better than of MP? :P
My understanding is that the pally talent Heart of the Crusader gives us the same 3% as Master Poisoner so we take the 3% for daggers since stacking Master Poisoner with HotC would be wasted points. I could be mistaken though, I read this a while ago.
My understanding is that the pally talent Heart of the Crusader gives us the same 3% as Master Poisoner so we take the 3% for daggers since stacking Master Poisoner with HotC would be wasted points. I could be mistaken though, I read this a while ago.
This is correct. An elemental shaman's Totem of Wrath also provides the same, unstacking benefit as the rogue and ret paladin talents. Also, Master Poisoner is the least reliable of the three because of Envenom causing the DP stacks to drop off.
Am I misunderstanding, the discussion taking place in the last few posts this is a moot point now that 3.1 is out?
I was under the impression that 3/3 MP with 3/5 CQC is superior to 3/3 TtT and 3/5 CQC with the buff to MP. There seems to be some speculation on this, according to this post: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...1/#post1192846
but the general idea is that you want to spec into MP now instead of TtT, correct?
I need some help picking a combat build for 3.1. In the early preview thread I saw 3 viable choices.
7/51/13
18/51/2
15/51/5
I know that poison damage has been buffed as well as armor pen rating. 7/51/13 would give me more armor pen and 18/51/2 would give me more poison damage. There is also the standard 15/51/5 build. What looks like the best choice at the moment?
Am I misunderstanding, the discussion taking place in the last few posts this is a moot point now that 3.1 is out?
I was under the impression that 3/3 MP with 3/5 CQC is superior to 3/3 TtT and 3/5 CQC with the buff to MP. There seems to be some speculation on this, according to this post: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...1/#post1192846
but the general idea is that you want to spec into MP now instead of TtT, correct?
Correct, you spec MP because of the +45% DP application after envenom, not because of the extra crit.
And as for TtT vs CQC, 3% crit on everything > 6% crit on combo moves.
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
With the dual-specc function coming up and all, I though about having one of my speccs to maximize FoK dmg. Will this be it? Feedback plox: 38/33/0
you probably want to go for Adrenaline Rush in a FoK spam spec. AR+FoK is pretty powerful on trash packs of things that have a reasonable amount of health.
Might be slacking on my part, but i have followed the rogue threads and need a final answer.
With the new glyphs, i plan on getting HfB/rupture and mutilate glyphs. This makes me loose alot of time on my slice uptime, and make my rotation even tighter.
So, right now im sitting on 309 hit rating and want to put points from Precision, into imp slice and dice. 1 or 2 points?
I also have Grim toll in my bank, with the armor penetration buff is it worth switching out mirror of truth? This will also help on the hit rating problem by switching out points in precision.
04/14/09, 9:52 AM
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