One of our guys got 5300ish on Patch as mut. Wow Web Stats

For lethality to come out ahead, I'd have to stop using Grim Toll - the flat armor reduction of SB becomes increasingly valuable the lower boss armor effectively gets.

Vulajin's spreadsheet has always undervalued Mutilate. I was consistently beating it by several hundred DPS pre-patch, and I've seen quite a few parses from other people that do so post-patch (I respecced).

Well, it was reasonably accurate until Cut to the Chase fucked things up. :p

Hey I'm not hatin', the actual number it shows is pretty irrelevant in the end anyway. =p

Your actual, in-game DPS is, of course, always susceptible to RNG variances, unlike the spreadsheet. For what it's worth, last time I raided as Mutilate and changed the spreadsheet to reproduce my in-game buffs and fight duration precisely, I was 12 DPS above what the spreadsheet suggested; so it's definitely "about right", but it isn't surprising if you're 50 or 100 or 200 DPS above or lower, since your cycles are highly sensitive to crits and procs.

I found that in 25-man situations with all adequate buffs, it is more beneficial. In 10-man, serrated blade is better. Since I dont feel like respeccing constantly, I stick with the lethality build. Furthermore, Rupture clipping issues are driving me crazy; lethality builds avoid that.

I think he's referring to the idea that according to Vulajins sheet, Lethality builds generally use a 3 finisher cycle (Xs/Yr/Ze) while builds that take Serrated Blades use a 2 finisher cycle (Xs/Yr).

I've had zero problems running a 5s/5r/4-5evis cycle, occasionally cutting S&D to 4 as well depending on pooling, uptime, etc. Occasionally, and very occasionally, you have to drop the evisc, but it still came out ahead in practice over the alternatives.

It's a little more dynamic out there these days to absolutely max stuff out; I've tried the statics suggested by the spreadsheet and come away lower than if I winged it with a certain degree of safety on the third.

7/51/13 with 2 finisher cycle was netting me 10% or so less in the wild with huge amounts of wasted S&D and rupture time, even running the AR glyph exploit for 1m KS (without it it crept up to 12-14%) instead of S&D and with 1 pt in Imp S&D and 5/5 sword spec. It wasn't enough time to do a proper 3 finisher cycle or anything resembling one, and a lot of energy and potential finishers just hit the floor.

Don't get me wrong, I love the spreadsheets, I'm just not as tied to them these days as I used to be and put them in what's probably the right position, as a starting ground to test with rather than a 'but the sheet says x.'

These days it's pretty much 'evisc if 10+s on S&D and rupture's not due.' I've had zero falloff problem with the 10s threshhold, sometimes it's *very* close but what isn't if you're pushing the absolute limit. 11s I was still clipping S&D too much, and 9s I don't think is possible at this gear level - maybe with more hit or more crit for S&D glyph.

This is pretty much what I've settled into as a rotation as well. The only fight (off the top of my head) that I reliably can keep up a 3 finisher cycle and feel I'm maxing DPS at 7/51/13 is Loatheb, as the combo point generation is much greater due to fungal creep. Outside of that particular fight (as well as when AR is active) I just micro manage and adapt my cycles based on procs. I also find that you need a little more of a buffer on the timer for Kel'Thuzad because of the extra energy spent on kicks.

Well... Not according to Vulajin's sheet, but only by the fact that when you are using a lethality build, you will usually use 3 finishers and you wont have rupture clipping issues where you need to wait with a thumb up your ass for your previous one to wear off.

Probably a quite stupid question, but what kind of rupture uptime % should one aim for when maintaining this cycle?

Assuming no other problems (in/out, kick duty, etc), should be 80+%, you're dropping evisc etc if you have to, trimming S&D if you're having consistent wasted time, etc (4 pt weaving happens if you have good glyph procs etc).

I dont know if what I'm about to ask has any value at all but I have been wondering it for a while now. You say that you hold a 3 finisher cycle on Loatheb, but would it not make more sense to hold a 2 finisher cycle with SnD and Eviscerate?

Before you tell me I'm stupid, hear me out. You gain a critical strike buff. Rupture cannot crit. If you are critting 75% of your eviscerates or more, that in itself would make it worth it to drop Rupture for that specific fight.

If I'm missing something than please correct me, but with 75% plus crit rating eviscerate should beat rupture any day of the week.

Not OP in question, but, Loatheb because of the SS glyph is going to be very, very, very loose - your CP generation goes through the roof with the right procs, again becuase of the glyph/buff interaction.

The only time I rupture on Loatheb at all is if retards pop the spores early and I miss it or something similar, then revert to evis spamming until 8 or so seconds is left on S&D, repeat.

Yeah thats what I do as well and have been doing it since week one of raiding. I start off the rotation regular with Rupture but the second I get the spore buff Rupture falls off my rotation.

I have never had the spore buff drop but if that ever did happen I would return to my regular cycle until the next spore.

Even with Spore, if you don't have Imp. Evisc, Rupture is likely better.

For example: Wow Web Stats

Rupture was ~300 damage better on average, and it still costs less energy.

Your findings are indeed intresting. I always figured the 10 extra energy for a 91% chance of crit like you show would be worth more damage. You gain about 4k damage with a crit eviscerate over a rupture.

Another factor is spec 15/51/5 vs 7/51/13 for extra bleed damage as well as Trauma or Mangle. One reason i may find different results is because I am specced 15/51/5 and have no Trauma or Mangle buff in my raid.

In fact, you are correct. I never payed attention much to rupture uptime as the SnD timer was usually my target. But as my gear progresses I found that, fully buffed, I could hold Rupture up pretty much 90+% of the time.

Yes, if you have no Feral Druid then Rupture looks less attractive. Injek is 15/51/5 though, so Serrated Blades is not inflating his rupture numbers. Also, unless I'm mistaken, Rupture can proc poisons as well, which again makes Rupture just flat-out do more damage for less energy, even with 100% crit.

Rupture ticks can't proc poisons I don't think. I believe the initial finisher can, however.

Correct. Initial application of Rupture can trigger weapon enchants, trinket procs, poisons, etc.; but the ticks don't.

I currently have 5/5 t7.5 combat 15/51/5 spec with CG mh WD oh and was under the impression that 4/5 teir and gloves off maly were the way to go for best in slot, but right now pluging it into the spreadsheet using teir gloves seems to be above Frosted Adroit ones by 60dps, How can this be? im making sure im sure i dont have non teir gear selected so im not losing 4 set bonus.