dschingis

Check your meta requirements... T 7.5 Gloves do have a socket. Frosted Adroid Hands dont.

 

Daarky

Correct, your only yellow gem is in your gloves. For best results, switch your helms blue gem with an Enchanted Tear "+6 all stats". You now meet the meta requirements.

 

Fizzwidget

Ah of course that was it. So it is no longer best in slot for someone to be using 4/5 valor and the gloves but general consensus that Chest is best? I passed on chest last night due to thinking "Oh but I need 4/5 and gloves to be best" and am now regretting it. Hopefully ill get it to drop another week I suppose now.

 

Leto

The chest is best by a small margin, but they're all close enough that you should probably just take the first one you encounter and use that.

Rogue at heart.

 

Malekii

I've read through this discussion but can't see an answer to this question, so I apologise if it's been answered before. First time posting on EJ but have read extensively.

I've now got 4 pieces of T7, two pieces being T7.25 so I've got the 4 pc bonus atm. I've been gemming [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] as I'm at 239 hit rating and Delicate is quoted on the pocket guide as being a gem of choice if you're above yellow cap, but below poison. However, according to the spreadsheet my dps will go up ever so slightly if I regemmed a couple with [Deadly Monarch Topaz] for a bit extra hit, which I've done. However, there comes a point when this is detramental to my dps according to the sheet.

So... Should I always be aiming for the poison cap of 315 or is this not necessarily a requirement in lieu of AP/AGI? At the minute our guild is raiding 10 man and we don't have misery or IFF on the table, and my dps compared to mages, DK's and Hunters is starting to lag behind, especially since the patch. Where I was consistently 1st / 2nd on the meters, I'm now finding myself 3'rd and sometimes 4th, even on static encounters such as Patch. I have fairly good gear, top enchants (save my MH)and have tried gemming according to recommendations from the spreadsheet.

My rotations are good, and save the ocassional slip up, I always keep 3xHfB, Rupture, poisons and SnD up.

My gear for reference

The World of Warcraft Armory

Any help is much appreciated.

 

PessimiStick

The poison hit cap is 237 for Horde in a balanced raid, not 315. 315 assumes you don't have a Boomkin or a Shadowpriest. Are you sure you're turning those off in the spreadsheet when you're changing gems around?

 

Malekii

Thanks for your answer.

They are indeed turned off. Like I said in my post, we don't have a boomkin or shadow priest, so Misery and Improved Faerie Fire are not available to me.

I suppose my question can be summed up as "should we, as rogues, always be at the poison cap minimum? Or are there times when reaching the poison cap is outweighed by other stat requirements?"

Thanks in advance

 

Cos-

Just on the outside chance, you realize that [Deadly Monarch Topaz] doesn't have any hit on it right? Was it a typo here or an oops on the spreadsheet?

 

Malekii

It was a typo on here, I meant [Glinting Monarch Topaz]

 

Zabathan

I keep reading both here and elsewhere that running dual webbed death is slightly better than having webbed MH sinister revenge OH. The Roguecraft spreadsheet however shows the latter being better for me. Just to check, I tried changing all my gear to BiS, and giving myself all raid buffs whether I usually have them or not. While the gap lessens with improved gear, I'm still seeing SR OH being better than WD. I'm the normal raid mutilate spec, with murder. Can someone clarify this? If I have the best available gear in the game right now, which dagger combination would be ideal for me? The consensus information I'm seeing seems to differ from the spreadsheet. Thank you.

 

• Aldriana

I believe some gear setups do wind up with 2xWD ahead even in the Roguecraft sheet; however, much of the reason for the asserted superiority of 2xWD comes from the Optimal Mutilate Gear sheet, which has a slightly more detailed model of some Mutilate mechanics.

 

Grunge

Just to note, AP in general is better than Agility for mutilate.
As for Glinting, I would recommend socketing one yellow socket in your best-in-slot gear with a Accurate Monarch Topaz, one with Precise Scarlet Ruby and rest with pure AP (Can't comment on blue sockets, since I'm a jewelcrafter).

On both my current and ideal gear setup this yielded the most dps.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

◊ chalon

That's not really true. Agi for Mutilate is in most cases extremely close to 2 EP (either slightly higher or slightly lower), which means it's basically interchangeable.

 

Duck2h

But doesn't poison damage scale with AP? Hence one would think it is more important to gem AP than AGI for mutilate rogues. Argument for AGI is that it increases crit, but most decent geared mutilate rogues would have ~40% crit rating during raids. Taking EP values into account only seems that AP~AGI at very high/end geared rogues. Does anyone else agree?

 

• Aldriana

Most of us use spreadsheets rather than off-the-cuff estimates based on intuition. And the spreadsheets say that Agi and AP are interchangeable from a damage perspective, hence agi is arguably superior since it also gives dodge.

 

pirsqed

So I got [Chestpiece of Suspicion] last week and was pretty happy. However, reading around here I never see anyone talk about it.

So of course [Tunic of Indulgence] drops tonight during Naxx.

Simple question. Which is better, and why?

 

Zabathan

I'm currently using [Tunic of Indulgence], and I'll continue to use it until I either get the T7.25 chest or [Chestguard of the Recluse]. Somone else might be able to give a more detailed response, but I believe Indulgence is better than Suspicion because of the increased AP and Crit, not to mention the sockets.

 

ionitabogdan

The advantage of using [Chestguard of the Recluse] with t7 gloves as a jwc is simple: u have 2 blue sockets (helm/legs) to use prismatic gems in and using 54ap prismatic in the gloves to deny that not so usefull yellow slot closes the gap with frosted android.

I'm still having issues what to do not to pass 315hit, is gemming 8agi/8hast an option?

 

• Aldriana

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with going past 315 hit - sure, hit is worth less past that point, but that doesn't mean that it's always a bad idea. For additional information, consult your favorite spreadsheet.

 

Haoli

Ionita, you might note that, rather than using a dragon's eye in the yellow socket on gloves, you could use it to cover a third blue socket in Favor of the Dragon Queen, and instead use a combo AP/Crit or AGI/Crit for above 237, or AP/Hit or AGI/Hit for below 237. It ends up being more efficient that way, and will give you more dps.

 

ionitabogdan

Atm I got fool's trial equiped and pendant of the dragonsworn in backpack. I dont have acces to the 25man version as I only raid with the alts of my guildies, time does not allow it. I considered that option, also using 27hit prismatic in the neck would put it above fools trial by all means. The problem is I dont have access to all the 25man gear as most of you do and I gotta make the best setup with what I got (also spamming 40expertise/40hit food or 45expertise/45hit elixirs, etc.).

 

Fehl/Cenatar

I don't see why all of you are debating agi and ap. Judging by your Armory pages I haven't seen many of you with expertise, which would be the logical red slot gem to use if your not capped, especially for mutilate, which most of you are. having 9 expertise and 4 piece is just stupid, regem your gear to expertise to get 20+ then start worrying about ap vs agi. Also, I have seen little to no difference in the agi vs ap gemming, they seem to be pretty close with kings, because ap is giving you more on poisons and rupture, where agi is giving you more from focussed attacks and with kings in general.
Just by looking at a few ppl on this last page (11):
Checkursix, 9 expertise -4 piece t7
Eshrah, 14 expertise -4 piece t7
Hulohot, 15 expertise
Ditch the ap and agi and get some expertise. Theres no reason not to be hitcapped and exp capped with your gear.

 

◊ chalon

Yeah, if you aren't Expertise capped as Mutilate, I would focus red sockets on Expertise until you hit that mark. Then at that point you can determine whether you want Agi or AP :P. Expertise seems to generally line up close to Agi/AP in terms of EP values, and it has the unquantifiable effect of RNG reduction, which is why I've always been a fan of capping Expertise.

On another note -- I've updated the OP to be a bit more clear and accurate given the changes in mechanics, modeling, and my understanding of the gear choices.

 

xmod2

If you're updating the OP, perhaps add in the Combat section that [Calamity's Grasp] MH with [Hailstorm] OH is a very viable Fists/Sword build. That combo is beating out any Fist/Dagger I can throw at it minus a [Webbed Death].

Build is standard Fists/Sword with 5/5 CQC and 4/5 Sword Spec.

This is a good alternative for those who are in the same boat as I am (Our raid has yet to see a Webbed Death drop).

 

◊ chalon

Done.

Yeah, we're in the same scenario. We've had 0 WD drops on the main run . I think the alt run got one some week though.