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Old 11/24/08, 1:37 PM   #26
chalon
Founder of the Chalonverse
 
Chalon
Night Elf Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Even on 25-man, KT drops only 1 helm token per kill, yes. This was reported by many people in Beta, but it wasn't changed. Either that means it's intended or it was very low priority and they never got around to fixing this.

All other Naxx 25 bosses (as well as Sartharion) drop 2 tokens per kill.

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Old 11/24/08, 1:45 PM   #27
x1tiger1x
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Argent Dawn
Originally Posted by chalon View Post
Even on 25-man, KT drops only 1 helm token per kill, yes. This was reported by many people in Beta, but it wasn't changed. Either that means it's intended or it was very low priority and they never got around to fixing this.

All other Naxx 25 bosses (as well as Sartharion) drop 2 tokens per kill.
KT drops 2 helm tokens per kill in 25man.

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Old 11/24/08, 4:00 PM   #28
Hanos
Back in my day...
 
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Human Rogue
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by Akka View Post
This sentence had me worried.
Do you mean there is only one single token for a r25 boss ?
I took for granted that they had gone the TBC way with 1 token on r10 bosses and 3 tokens on r25 bosses, but after all there was only one token on Maulg/Gruul and Mag at first, so...
Originally Posted by Leto View Post
Not killing kt/sapph until tonight, but all the other bosses in naxx dropped at least 2 valorous tokens, so I'd imagine KT would drop at least that many.
Nope, T7.25 helms are going to be in short supply, currently the only known source (and everything has been killed) is Kel'Thuzad, and he drops two per kill, so odds are even the top guilds are going to have people missing Helms for Ulduar, because the other pieces can be picked up with badegs or from the PvP boss. So make sure that the people taking them doing have a better alternative. For rogues the helm is basically required because we don't have a superior helm option and we have superior legs, chest and gloves.

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle View Post
Also for the frequency with which people get called out for not having achievements when they talk about specifics of a fight, about 90% of the posts in this thread crying about how easy (or hard) the zone is shouldn't exist. You're the new 1500 rated experts on the subject of top-end PVP. Congratulations.

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Old 11/24/08, 4:58 PM   #29
chalon
Founder of the Chalonverse
 
Chalon
Night Elf Rogue
 
No WoW Account
I have never seen KT drop 2 helm tokens on a kill. And I just double-checked on our guild's DKP list and only see one helm drop on each of our two kills. I also killed him many times on Beta and only ever saw 1 helm token.

First kill he dropped: [Boundless Ambition] [The Turning Tide] [Last Laugh] [Crown of the Lost Protector]

Second kill: [Boundless Ambition] [Leggings of Mortal Arrogance] [Voice of Reason] [Crown of the Lost Protector]

The only other thing I could guess is maybe one of those slots is shared with the set tokens? So he always drops 4 items, sometimes 2x non-set 2x helm, and other times 3x non-set, 1 helm?

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Old 11/24/08, 6:11 PM   #30
ZLoBny
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Karazhan (EU)
We got 2 helms on 25man mode this reset.

So I guess, its random.

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Old 11/24/08, 6:21 PM   #31
chalon
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Chalon
Night Elf Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Was it 2+2 or 3+2?

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Old 11/24/08, 11:39 PM   #32
Ultramax
Soda Popinski
 
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Troll Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Our kill on the 23rd resulted in 2 weapons, shield, 2 helm tokens. Seems like it's been hotfixed chalon.

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Old 11/25/08, 12:28 AM   #33
ohnoes
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Laughing Skull
I'm fairly certain they hotfixed it, if in fact he's dropping 2 helm tokens. Come to think of it our Wintergrasp lockout was increased to 7 day reset as well opposed to 3 days.

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Old 11/25/08, 12:33 AM   #34
Tinkerfizzle
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Greymane
Originally Posted by ohnoes View Post
Come to think of it our Wintergrasp lockout was increased to 7 day reset as well opposed to 3 days.
I think Wintergrasp might just be set to be either reset on Tuesday or every third day right now - whatever comes first - I could be wrong though.

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Old 11/26/08, 6:03 PM   #35
Hulkhoegan
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by chalon View Post
Weapons
Combat: So what's fucked up for Combat is the best MH sword in the game currently is a 156 DPS Naxx trash drop. Furthermore, there's only one top end sword which is 1.5s. This means that for all intents and purposes, you really don't want to go swords anymore. Instead, MH Fist/OH Dagger is the way to go. So drop 5/5 Sword Spec and instead get 5/5 CQC. This sucks a little bit for humans, but given that you still get 10 free Expertise from talents, and there's a plethora of well-itemized armor pieces with Expertise on it, it's not too big of a deal. Sword Spec is not hands down better than CQC now, due to both the WF change and the addition of Prey on the Weak.

So basically, you want MH [Calamity's Grasp] (KT drop), and for an OH you want a fast dagger such as [Webbed Death], [Deadly Gladiator's Shiv], or [Murder].
Using sp00n's spreadsheet v3b and all of the default gear that comes plugged in when you download the sheet I have found that a 15/51/5 spec including both 5/5 CQC and 4/5 Sword spec using [Calamity's Grasp] and [Hailstorm] is only ~20 dps below the Fist/Dagger alternative with [Calamity's Grasp] and [Webbed Death].

These are the values that I found with using a 15/51/5 spec with a 5s/5r/5e rotation with the Rupture, SS, and SnD Glyphs:

[Calamity's Grasp] / [Webbed Death] 4821.40
[Calamity's Grasp] / [Hailstorm] 4797.01

The Fist/Dagger setup is still the most effective but [Hailstorm] is currently the second best off hand from what I've found and deserves a mentioning.

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Old 11/26/08, 6:28 PM   #36
CrayonOfDoom
Glass Joe
 
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Gnome Rogue
 
Aerie Peak
Originally Posted by Tinkerfizzle View Post
I think Wintergrasp might just be set to be either reset on Tuesday or every third day right now - whatever comes first - I could be wrong though.
Definitely a weekly reset, has "5day 17hr 33min" timer on it right now. Also, i can confirm that KT dropped 2x helms for us. Double vanquisher though, so I'm set till blizz releases more content!

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Old 11/26/08, 8:16 PM   #37
Feist-Mok
Bald Bull
 
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Human Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Hulkhoegan View Post
Using sp00n's spreadsheet v3b and all of the default gear that comes plugged in when you download the sheet I have found that a 15/51/5 spec including both 5/5 CQC and 4/5 Sword spec using [Calamity's Grasp] and [Hailstorm] is only ~20 dps below the Fist/Dagger alternative with [Calamity's Grasp] and [Webbed Death].

These are the values that I found with using a 15/51/5 spec with a 5s/5r/5e rotation with the Rupture, SS, and SnD Glyphs:

[Calamity's Grasp] / [Webbed Death] 4821.40
[Calamity's Grasp] / [Hailstorm] 4797.01

The Fist/Dagger setup is still the most effective but [Hailstorm] is currently the second best off hand from what I've found and deserves a mentioning.
Did you change the race to Human, as you are?

The racial does a good bit of gap closing for any spec involving swords for us.

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Old 11/27/08, 2:57 AM   #38
Hulkhoegan
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Feist-Mok View Post
Did you change the race to Human, as you are?

The racial does a good bit of gap closing for any spec involving swords for us.
That was with leaving the race as NE, chaning it to human does close the gap a bit more but that combo still ends up in second place.

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Old 11/27/08, 8:07 AM   #39
Backgoode
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Cenarion Circle
It should also be noted that [Librarian's Paper Cutter] is essentially equivalent to [Murder] as a combat offhand.

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Old 11/27/08, 10:28 AM   #40
Tinwhisker
Bald Bull
 
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Dwarf Rogue
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Tinkerfizzle View Post
I think Wintergrasp might just be set to be either reset on Tuesday or every third day right now - whatever comes first - I could be wrong though.
It was a 3-day reset but they hot-fixed it to 7 days, they also increased his health. People were just walking in and collecting free loot. I imagine we'll start seeing more changes like this.

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> 26/11 Archavon Encounter Changes


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Old 11/28/08, 6:33 AM   #41
Haoli
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Ysera
I've got an interesting question for you all here, because I'm not entirely sure what to make of the trinket I'm talking about here, largely because I don't have much information.

The trinket in question is the Darkmoon Card provided by the Undeath Deck.

A report on wowhead shows the card as having:

85 Haste Rating
Each time you deal damage you have a chance to deal 744-956 shadow damage. (Proc rate: 35%, no listed internal CD)


Link



I'm not sure what to make of this trinket as a rogue option next to Fury of the Five Flights or Mirror of Truth, and certainly don't want to be chasing yet another deck if it's no good.

So far as I figure, the proc effect should proc not only off melee hits, but poison ticks, ruptures, and wound/instant poison procs.

Anybody got the know-how to crunch the numbers on this one?

(Edited for spelling errors)

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Old 11/28/08, 7:28 AM   #42
Fezogue
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Stormscale (EU)
According to ShadowPanther the best offhand weapon to use is Sinister Revenge yet this is a MH dagger? Can someone confirm whether this is true or not?

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Old 11/28/08, 7:29 AM   #43
koaschten
In the rear with the gear!
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Auchindoun (EU)
Unless i fail at reading tooltips [Sinister Revenge] says onehand.

How to get an Android Authenticator on your PC. (updated feb'11)

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Old 11/28/08, 7:33 AM   #44
Neto-
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wut
Gnome Warlock
 
No WoW Account
And Shadowpanther really isn't what you should be using to evaluate upgrades.

Originally Posted by Aldriana
But while Vulajin is only a pale shadow of my brilliance, he still contributes a fair amount to the community so I'd feel guilty

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Old 11/28/08, 8:00 AM   #45
chalon
Founder of the Chalonverse
 
Chalon
Night Elf Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Well, [Sinister Revenge] is likely the best off-hand in any event. But it's only very, very slightly better than dual Webbed Deaths.

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Old 11/29/08, 11:46 AM   #46
Raconzor
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Icecrown
This is slightly off-topic but ... what would you suggest we use to find upgrades? Going through the spreadsheet in its current form and exhaustively plugging in long lists of possible items in each slot is ... not fun. Of course you will use the spreadsheet to compare the relative merits of a couple of items for a slot, but as a means of finding out what might be upgrades, it is not my tool of choice.

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Old 11/29/08, 12:37 PM   #47
Koca
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Uldum
From the information I've gathered, scribes make the cards for the new decks but other than that I have no idea. Does anybody know how exactly these decks are made?

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Old 11/29/08, 12:51 PM   #48
 Maestroquark
Soda Popinski
 
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Ramala
Orc Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Koca View Post
From the information I've gathered, scribes make the cards for the new decks but other than that I have no idea. Does anybody know how exactly these decks are made?
Scribes can make [Darkmoon Card of the North], which in turn can be 1 of 8 cards from 1 of 4 decks. For the rogue-centric one, you wan Ace through Eight of Nobles. Combine them, make the deck, get your trinket.

Before you start to drift, and your soul begins to scream.
I just wanted to tell you, that you're listening to a dream.

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Old 11/29/08, 6:43 PM   #49
Xaoc
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Eitrigg
Originally Posted by Raconzor View Post
This is slightly off-topic but ... what would you suggest we use to find upgrades? Going through the spreadsheet in its current form and exhaustively plugging in long lists of possible items in each slot is ... not fun. Of course you will use the spreadsheet to compare the relative merits of a couple of items for a slot, but as a means of finding out what might be upgrades, it is not my tool of choice.
Shadowpanther lists the most likely item ugrades, listed via his calculations. While those calculations might not be the same as what you use to determine usefulness, you can still see what items are out there, and based off those items, get an idea of what upgrades to shoot for. In my experience, I've seen that the item rankings he has are generally correct, and something higher up on the list is generally going to be a DPS upgrade.

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Old 11/30/08, 2:45 AM   #50
chalon
Founder of the Chalonverse
 
Chalon
Night Elf Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Maestroquark View Post
Scribes can make [Darkmoon Card of the North], which in turn can be 1 of 8 cards from 1 of 4 decks. For the rogue-centric one, you wan Ace through Eight of Nobles. Combine them, make the deck, get your trinket.
Be prepared to spend several thousand gold in order to make the card, as well. Completed mine, now just have to wait for the Darkmoon Faire to come back in town.

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