WotLK Rogue Gear Discussion - Page 25

Demi9OD · 01/29/09, 4:37 PM

I just switched from 7/51/13 to 15/51/5 this week, that is probably why I noticed it more yesterday fnfal.

Denia · 01/30/09, 3:36 PM

I've looked around a bit about this, and have not seen it discussed. If it was and I missed it, just point me at what I missed, and I'll say thanks. In any case, I am curious about a trinket from Saph the Extract of Necromantic Power, [Extract of Necromantic Power] . It seems like it would be good for a Rogue, and comments about it seem to indicate it procs off not only Deadly Poison, but also rupture and garrote. There was mention elsewhere of a 15 sec internal CD. How would this stack up against the other top end trinkets? I already have Fury of the Five Flights and Mirror of truth.

Denia

Palidus41 · 01/30/09, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by Denia

I've looked around a bit about this, and have not seen it discussed. If it was and I missed it, just point me at what I missed, and I'll say thanks. In any case, I am curious about a trinket from Saph the Extract of Necromantic Power, [Extract of Necromantic Power] . It seems like it would be good for a Rogue, and comments about it seem to indicate it procs off not only Deadly Poison, but also rupture and garrote. There was mention elsewhere of a 15 sec internal CD. How would this stack up against the other top end trinkets? I already have Fury of the Five Flights and Mirror of truth.

Denia

I couldn't speak for whether DP can actually proc it or not, Garrote and Rupture most definitely cannot because they are not spells. Even in the event that the tooltip is misleading and they can proc the trinket, it has an internal CD, and isn't going to be remotely useful for a Rogue over the other trinkets already established as the best options.

velocibrad · 01/30/09, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by Palidus41

I couldn't speak for whether DP can actually proc it or not, Garrote and Rupture most definitely cannot because they are not spells. Even in the event that the tooltip is misleading and they can proc the trinket, it has an internal CD, and isn't going to be remotely useful for a Rogue over the other trinkets already established as the best options.

Pretty sure the comments on Wowhead say that it procs off of rupture/garrote/DP, but yeah, I wouldn't imagine it being more useful than our current best trinkets.

Thorror · 01/31/09, 3:32 AM

Originally Posted by xmod2

If you're updating the OP, perhaps add in the Combat section that [Calamity's Grasp] MH with [Hailstorm] OH is a very viable Fists/Sword build. That combo is beating out any Fist/Dagger I can throw at it minus a [Webbed Death].

Build is standard Fists/Sword with 5/5 CQC and 4/5 Sword Spec.

This is a good alternative for those who are in the same boat as I am (Our raid has yet to see a Webbed Death drop).

Actually, it comes out to be a bit higher DPS if you put 5/5 Sword Spec, and 1/2 imp s&d. This is of course when using the s&d glyph for increased time. Speccing this way, according to the spreadsheet, actually brought [Hailstorm] ahead of [Webbed Death] for a combat OH.

Valustria · 01/31/09, 6:10 AM

Originally Posted by Thorror

Actually, it comes out to be a bit higher DPS if you put 5/5 Sword Spec, and 1/2 imp s&d. This is of course when using the s&d glyph for increased time. Speccing this way, according to the spreadsheet, actually brought [Hailstorm] ahead of [Webbed Death] for a combat OH.

Is this misinformation, or can you explain how you got that result? I don't want to assume, but you can consider me skeptical. I can't imagine 1% chance to proc an offhand sword hit is more valuable than 25% more SnD uptime.

According to Vulajin's Roguecraft LK 0.4.4 spreadsheet, with my gear, [Calamity's Grasp]/[Hailstorm] with 2/2 Imp. SnD and 4/5 Sword Spec., running a 3+s/5r/5e cycle absolutely crushes the same setup with 1/2 Imp. SnD and 5/5 Sword Spec. It also beats (by a much closer margin, around 15 raid buffed DPS) [Calamity's Grasp]/[Webbed Death] with the four points from Sword Spec. thrown back into utility talents. I dunno what you guys are wearing or doing to make Webbed Death come out ahead of Hailstorm, but I'm not doing the same thing, apparently. All the different tweaks I've tried still produce the same result: Hailstorm is better than Webbed Death as a combat offhand coupled with Calamity's Grasp.

saedo · 01/31/09, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Auturgist

Is this misinformation, or can you explain how you got that result? I don't want to assume, but you can consider me skeptical. I can't imagine 1% chance to proc an offhand sword hit is more valuable than 25% more SnD uptime.

That would work in the 7/51/13 spec with 4s/5r cycles.

robfang · 01/31/09, 5:35 PM

Originally Posted by Denia

I've looked around a bit about this, and have not seen it discussed. If it was and I missed it, just point me at what I missed, and I'll say thanks. In any case, I am curious about a trinket from Saph the Extract of Necromantic Power, [Extract of Necromantic Power] . It seems like it would be good for a Rogue, and comments about it seem to indicate it procs off not only Deadly Poison, but also rupture and garrote. There was mention elsewhere of a 15 sec internal CD. How would this stack up against the other top end trinkets? I already have Fury of the Five Flights and Mirror of truth.

I did some napkin math. It seems it is worse than [Mirror of Truth] even if we assume a 15 sec proc time which is impossible.

Daarky · 01/31/09, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by Auturgist

Is this misinformation, or can you explain how you got that result? I don't want to assume, but you can consider me skeptical. I can't imagine 1% chance to proc an offhand sword hit is more valuable than 25% more SnD uptime.

According to Vulajin's Roguecraft LK 0.4.4 spreadsheet, with my gear, [Calamity's Grasp]/[Hailstorm] with 2/2 Imp. SnD and 4/5 Sword Spec., running a 3+s/5r/5e cycle absolutely crushes the same setup with 1/2 Imp. SnD and 5/5 Sword Spec. It also beats (by a much closer margin, around 15 raid buffed DPS) [Calamity's Grasp]/[Webbed Death] with the four points from Sword Spec. thrown back into utility talents. I dunno what you guys are wearing or doing to make Webbed Death come out ahead of Hailstorm, but I'm not doing the same thing, apparently. All the different tweaks I've tried still produce the same result: Hailstorm is better than Webbed Death as a combat offhand coupled with Calamity's Grasp.

I've found the same results as you, CG/HS w/ 4/5 sword spec 2/2imp SND and a 3s/5r/5e cycle will produce the highest DPS from all my testing. I can only assume that anyone who finds differently is using an inferior rotation.

Haoli · 02/01/09, 5:49 AM

<complete edit>

I think I need more time to go over my ideas before posting them here. Some of it was unfounded.

Leto · 02/02/09, 11:28 AM

Just a heads up: I plugged LPC into Aldriana's latest spreadsheet, and if you use LPC/SR, it looks better to put SR in the mh with DP and LPC in the oh. The extra poison dps due to finishers doesn't seem to outweigh the damage lost from the dual-wield penalty between SR and LPC.

Also note that WD/SR is only 1 dps ahead of SR/WD, so it may be better for you to use SR mh there as well, but WD/WD is still the best.

dschingis · 02/02/09, 12:46 PM

Try to change the poisons while using Hailstorm and calamity's grasp. So deadly on OH and WP on MH. Made a nice difference for me.

I'm using 4/5 Sword specc and 2/2 SnD (15/51/5). 5/5/5 cycle and BF glyph.
14 dps more with 3/5/5 cycle and snd glyph.
another 8 dps more with 7/51/13 and bf glyph using a 4s/5r cycle, 1/2 snd and 5/5 sword specc, but i feel like loosing alot of combo points or have to cut every running snd while using this cycle.

But everything changes if you dont have mangle or trauma in ur raid. the 2nd specc comes ahead then.

Demi9OD · 02/02/09, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by dschingis

Try to change the poisons while using Hailstorm and calamity's grasp. So deadly on OH and WP on MH. Made a nice difference for me.

I'm using 4/5 Sword specc and 2/2 SnD (15/51/5). 5/5/5 cycle and BF glyph.
14 dps more with 3/5/5 cycle and snd glyph.
another 8 dps more with 7/51/13 and bf glyph using a 4s/5r cycle, 1/2 snd and 5/5 sword specc, but i feel like loosing alot of combo points or have to cut every running snd while using this cycle.

But everything changes if you dont have mangle or trauma in ur raid. the 2nd specc comes ahead then.

How would 7/51/13, with higher rupture uptime and more rupture damage win with no bleed debuff?

chalon · 02/02/09, 2:51 PM

Originally Posted by Leto

Just a heads up: I plugged LPC into Aldriana's latest spreadsheet, and if you use LPC/SR, it looks better to put SR in the mh with DP and LPC in the oh. The extra poison dps due to finishers doesn't seem to outweigh the damage lost from the dual-wield penalty between SR and LPC.

Also note that WD/SR is only 1 dps ahead of SR/WD, so it may be better for you to use SR mh there as well, but WD/WD is still the best.

Interesting to know, I guess I'll swap em back then.

AlphaQ · 02/03/09, 6:30 PM

I seem to have played with Vulajin's spreadsheet a lot and the optimal DPS I have achieved was 4909.664005

Human, using 3s/5r/5e with Rupture, SS, and SnD glyphs and 2/2 Imp. SnD and 4/5 Sword Spec. I am actually an engineer but the spreadsheet is not updated for the new glove enchant so I just opted for Crusher.

Calamity's Grasp
Berserking
Wound Poison

Hailstorm
Berserking
Deadly Poison

Envoy of Mortality

Valorous Bonescythe Helmet
Arcanum of Torment
Relentless Earthsiege Diamond
Bright Dragon's Eye (JC Only)

Favor of the Dragon Queen
Bright Dragon's Eye (JC Only)

Valorous Bonescythe Pauldrons
Inscription of the Axe
Bright Scarlet Ruby

Drape of the Deadly Foe
Major Agility

Chestguard of the Recluse
Powerful Stats
Bright Scarlet Ruby

Sinner's Bindings
Greater Assault
Bright Scarlet Ruby

Valorous Bonescythe Gauntlets
Crusher
Wicked Monarch Topaz

Stalk-Skin Belt
Eternal Belt Buckle
Bright Scarlet Ruby

Valorous Bonescythe Legplates
Icescale Leg Armor
Bright Dragon's Eye (JC Only)
Wicked Monarch Topaz

Dawnwalkers
Icewalker

Ring of Invincibility
Surge Needle Ring

Grim Toll
Darkmoon Card: Greatness