@remanis

As Combat you want to avoid using most of T9. You sould go for the heroic 10man chest (Vest of Shifting Shadows) and gloves (Sunreaver Assasin's Gloves), the vendor badge shoulders and the Bloodfang Hood. They have the same item level as T9 but are way superior. Only Mutilate rogues will be using 4 piece T9.245.

I would suggest using the badge helm over the bloodfang hood.

Actually, Bloodfang Hood (245) is ridiculously good, ~80 DPS better than the badge helm in my gear. So go with the Hood. Also, as has been stated before, it generally takes 5 pieces of non-set 245 gear to make Combat Evis pull ahead of Combat Rupture (4pT8), so I recommend waiting for the legs from Northrend Beasts as well.

Beware to update the stats of the bloodfang on your sheet. I've much better results with bloodfang hood.



@Chack : got better results with 4T9+bloodfang , in my case (fist/dagger combat with Mjolnir Runestone) , though i have to wait to get 4pieces to be able to get rid of the 4T8

Pretty sure I wont be using 4pc T9.245, dunno where you came up with that idea.

Bloodfang Hood is pretty much BiS for some Combat rogues on the spreadsheet currently, due to its huge amount of armor penetration. Coupled with Mjolnir Runestone, one can start to hit the ArP cap and gem Agi instead. Alternatively, having both the Heroic and Normal Death's Verdict/Choice trinkets just means you gem more ArPen. Either way, it's rated about 30 EP above the T9.258 helm for me.

I've been trying to come up with a pre H25TOC gearset for Combat, and this is what I've got so far:

Helm: Bloodfang Hood
Neck: Collar of Ceaseless Torment
Shoulders: t9.245
Back: Cloak of the Silver Covenant
Chest: Armor of Shifting Shadows
Wrist: Bracers of Swift Death
Gloves: Gloves of the Silver Assassin
Belt: Belt of the Merciless Killer
Legs: t9.245
Boots: Acidmaw Boots
Ring1: Dexterous Brightstone Ring
Ring2: Planestalker Signet
Trinket1: Death's Verdict
Trinket2: Mjolnir Runestone

MH: The Lion's Maw
OH: Westfall Saber
Ranged: The Diplomat

Estimated DPS: 8697.6
Cycle: Low Rupture

This build still uses rupture, it's gemmed up to 733armor pen using (1) 34arp and (3) 20arp gems, all other red gems are agility. Yellow gems are 10agi10crit except for two which are agi/haste, Nightmare Tear in legs. Berserker on both weapons although Mongoose on OH is only a 7dps loss. Boot enchant is Cat's swiftness, Icewalker takes the estimated dps up to 8723.8

I'm a Night Elf with JC and Alchemy, I added the alchemy bonus by using the LW bracer enchant.

Anyone else come up with such a list? Would be great to compare.

Been looking to see updated by Aldriana BiS list. Think should be corrected a little with downcoming value of ArPn, no? Any ideas bout gemming? Read these post bout pollygemming like agi with less ArPn... but didn't get an idea, what for should u use ArPn gems at all, should it be more interesting/usefull to gemm in Agi everywhere?

PS: sorry for terrible english... living here with bears & "shapka-ushanka" head slot - russian servers here.

Perhaps you should consult the spreadsheet? There are better off pieces from both 25N and 10H as weapon swapping Mutilate.

I've been running around with Vis'kag for the last few days. In general I'd say it is a disappointment. I don't see anything like 1ppm - in fact less than half of that. If I read the raid statistics right, the proc rate is below 2%, and the fraction of damage coming from Fatal Wounds is about 1%. I'd probably do better with Malice.
Here is my last log report: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I spent several hours testing Tarnished Gutgore Ripper, and collected some data on the shadow bolt proc. The WWS report is stored here. I was using Gurgore in the mainhand, and was also using a lower lvl 1.3 speed dagger. The stats that matter: haste 431 (13.14%), spell crit 367 (7.99%), spell hit 404 (above the cap), no talents or gems affecting crit multipliers, no other procs.

Here is the summary of the data:
Total number of landed attacks = 19811
Total number of MH landed attacks = 8308 (calculated using speed of MH and OH daggers)
Total number of procs = 261
Total number of crit procs = 13
Total mitigated proc damage = 5.5%

Thus the proc rate during this testing was 3.1% (95% confidence interval was 2.78%-3.54%). Assuming the proc is affected by regular raid spell damage buffs, the raid dps of the proc (using 3% proc rate) is equal to:
1/(base_speed/raid_haste)*proc_rate*base_damage*((1-spell_crit)+spell_crit*crit_multiplier)*curse_elementes*BM_buff*(1-resists) = 1/(1.8/2.39)*3%*390*((1-25%)+25%*1.545)*1.13*1.03*(1-5.5%)=19.41 dps.

So the dps effect of the shadow bolt proc is negligible.

EDIT(this part needs careful testing): At the same time the curse effect has a dps potential. When it procs, the target loses maximum health. According to the proc description, the target loses 130 stamina and how that translates into health depends on the target. For instance, boss dummy's health drops by 2.24 million or 22.4%. The health of an elite in ice crown goes from 65.2k to 58.7k or by roughly 10%. It all depends on the conversion of stamina into hp. Now the interesting part is that if the dagger procs early it can cause a lot of damage that does not get reversed back when the curse falls off 30 seconds later. For instance when dpsing an elite with 67.4k hp, the proc occured almost right away and took it down to somewhere near 60k. I continued to dps and when the curse ran out, its max hp restored, but current hp remained unchanged. As a result when the mob died, I only ended up doing 59.7k damage to kill it. Which means the early proc has caused latent 7.7k damage. This may not be working "as intended," and it can have an application in raids.

Consider for instance an entire raid with dps of 60k hitting on a heroic dummy (or think about Steelbreaker and just assume it has same stamina to hp conversion coefficient). With 2.4 average haste, it will take one on average 25 seconds to proc a curse. After 25 seconds the raid will have done 1.5 million damage, so the dummy is at 8.5million hp. The curse from the proc will take it down to 7.76 million, without a reversal, so on average the proc is expected to do 740k damage.

Perhaps someone could replicate my tests to see if it holds upand also to test stam to hp conversion of various bosses.

Hmmm if this affects raidbosses the way you describe it might be worth carrying one around to start the fight with. If you pay attention to when it procs and more importantly when the debuff falls off, you can then just switch back to your normal weapon again. 10% of the bosses HP is huge.

Yea if you know how much hp it knocks off for each boss, you can start with Gutgore on and keep it on till it either procs or you reach that hp threshhold and then switch to your regular main hand. Proccing the curse early is priority, so it makes sense to pop your speed pot in the very beginning. Perhaps enchanting mongoose on it is the way to go because of the 2% haste proc.

It may even be worth it to dual wield two of these for the first portion of the fight, doubling your chance for a proc. In the future, if not Mongoose, would the new Black Magic enchant be worth it if it stays as is on the PTR and proc from poison damage?

It sounds kind of funny, but it's probably worth to have all melee dual-wield it and then swap back to regular weapons as soon as one curse procs. Black magic requires some number crunching.

There is no chance this is going to last as functional if it's that completely and totally overpowered.

Pre-25hc, I ran the following gear through the simulation sheet for 51/18/2, glyphs ToTT, Mutilate, HfB, all buffs, AP food.

T9.245 Helm, Shoulders, Chest, Gloves

AC10hc Neck (Collar of Ceaseless Torment)
258 Tribute Cloak (Cloak of Serrated Blades)
Bracers of Swift Death (Crafted)
AC25nm Belt (Belt of Merciless Killer)
AC25nm Legs (Leggings of the Broken Beast)
AC10hc Boots (Acidmaw Boots)
AC25nm Ring (Band of Callous Aggression)
AC10hc Ring (Planestalker Signet)

ULD25 Trinket (Comet's Trail)
AC25nm Trinket (Death's Verdict)

AC25nm Dagger (Twin Spike)
AC25nm Dagger (Steel Bladebreaker)

Coming up with avg. 9682dps over 350 iterations.

Swapping to from full t9.245 to
Bloodfang Hood.245,
Spaulders of the Snow Bandit.245,
Armor of Shifting Shadows.245
and Gloves of the Silver Assassin.245

This resulted in avg. 9727 over 350 iterations.

So, yes you're right that offset is slightly superior, and if possible it'd be better use offset.
However the question is it worth passing on t9.245 and wait for them to drop.

Not to mention any future upgrades to T9.258 would require you to buy at least some t9.245 as well.

Your list of gear is pretty bad =/

10man heroic daggers are better than the 25man normal daggers, Charge of the Eredar is showing as a better neck than Ceaseless Torment, Anub25 bracers are much better than crafted bracers for Muti, and on and on. Also, I won't be getting anywhere near T9.258, so I don't care about it. As someone who is limited to only 25n and 10h, T9.245 is a waste of points and badges.

Here are a few more datapoints on the proc rate of Tempered Vis'kag. Both sets were done without proc trinkets, without HnS and with frill in offhand. Just autoattacking the Heroic Training Dummy.

First set is with 0 haste and no LR, 2.6 speed.
5588 white hits
250 procs
~4.47%
Log-nohaste


Second set is with 915 (27.90%) haste rating and LR, 1.85 speed. (1.848)
12778 white hits
538 procs
~4.21%
Log-haste

Looks to me like 1 PPM (4.33..%) but not affected by haste. Strange that all our weapons are crap when the other weapons on her table are properly itemized for their ilvl.

How does the neck, bracers and weapons relate to the set pieces?

True, I forgot about the weapons (mostly because the 1.8 dagger is listed by it's horde name in the sim sheet, and 1.4 isn't listed at all.).
But I have to disagree about the neck and the bracers, since the 25nm bracers are actually not superior, mostly due to the low value of hit beyond spellhit cap and the lack of a socket.
The neck is also a borderline case, since in most cases the extra socket tips the scales in favor of the Ceaseless Torment.

As always: YMMV.

And what else is there to spend badges on?
Personally, I've looted 417, and while that includes 25hc, you shouldn't be in short supply of Triumph, unless you missed a lot of raids or dailies.


Also could you post your results from the sim sheet?
Since there might be something else going on if you're noticing a larger DPS difference between 4pc vs Offset.

Can we get some confirmation on the Ripper debuff being fixed?

I ran 10 man gutgore in 10 man Ulduar tonight (10/05). On Iron Council, each boss has 2998k HP. Gutgore brought each of them (not at the same time) to 2740k HP. Their health DID NOT go up 258k when the proc wore off, but a proc near the end of the bosses life did not kill them (or so it seemed). A second proc while the first was up did not reduce the max health any further, but it *seemed* to reduce the current HP by an additional 258k (We were doing hardmode IC, so watching was hard). Here are some screen shots:

Recount early in the night on boss attempts: (note Gutgore can hit, crit and miss)
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...509_232225.jpg

Math (someone should check this)
1377 swings on just the bosses by the end of the night
43.81% of them should be from my MH (1.18 MH speed and 0.92 OH speed w/ SnD up)
is 603 MH swings
21 procs, which is an approxiamte 3.5% proc rate

I was able to get it up on both Brundir and Molgiem within 10 seconds of each other on a pull.


Bosses HP w/ gutgore proc:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...509_232524.jpg