WotLK Rogue Gear Discussion - Page 50

Maltese · 05/17/09, 6:45 PM

Waiting till the buff wears off to apply envenom could and most likely would lead to your energy capping out, which is definitely not ideal. You can almost keep the envenom buff up now while keeping rupture up 100% of the time. Keep in mind that relentless strikes makes many of your ruptures effectively free in terms of energy cost so there is really no reason you shouldn't be using it in your boss rotations.

• Aldriana · 05/17/09, 7:05 PM

While it's true that ruptures have (effectively) no energy cost, it's also true that they have a combo point cost, and thus a lost opportunity cost. Nor is the straight energy calculations necessarily indicative. That is: while I agree with the general conclusions being reached - to wit, the fact that for the moment rupture is generally stronger than Envenom and thus needs to find it's way into Mutilate cycles - I think it's also worth keeping in mind that the margin of superiority is not, perhaps, as large as one might think based on these arguments. As we saw on PTR: the simple replacement of the Rupture glyph with the Envenom glyph was sufficient to tip the balance. Thus, while it's *currently* true that Rupture is a vital part of Envenom cycles, it should not necessarily be assumed that that will always be the case - if we get a new glyph which displaces Rupture, or our next tier has no rupture-based set bonus, or any such thing, we could quite plausibly see Rupture dropping out of our cycles.

Of course, Blizzard seems to be aware of this, and, rightly or wrongly, are opposed to the notion; as such, I would anticipate that they will seek to avoid this eventuality. But, contrary to some of the recent posts, I don't think the notion is fundamentally ridiculous in an abstract sense, either.

Leonoire · 05/17/09, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Maltese

Waiting till the buff wears off to apply envenom could and most likely would lead to your energy capping out

The Envenom buff is only 6 seconds, and you'll be spending energy on mutilate, your energy will not cap out even if you have a quick 4 CP's after one envenom.You can usually get at least 2 envenoms between ruptures, I am simply stating that envenom and rupture are very very close at the moment and that small gear changes and set bonus changes in the future could change things. But yes, currently, Rupture is better.

Originally Posted by Aldriana

Of course, Blizzard seems to be aware of this, and, rightly or wrongly, are opposed to the notion; as such, I would anticipate that they will seek to avoid this eventuality. But, contrary to some of the recent posts, I don't think the notion is fundamentally ridiculous in an abstract sense, either.

I completely agree, blizzard will never allow rupture to leave the mutilate cycle and the envenom glyph was the perfect example of it. I think they are at the point they want, Rupture being better, but just barely.

Joigahdenn · 05/18/09, 6:27 PM

Alagon 10m World First by Ensidia. Dropped a fancy new trinket Dark Matter. I haven't been able to run any numbers yet, but looks like a good candidate to be a top trinket, maybe in place of DMC:G...

chalon · 05/18/09, 6:33 PM

Just doing some quick napkin math on it, you probably would replace Mjolnir for Mutilate and DMC:G for Combat in the BiS setup.

Giloran · 05/18/09, 7:55 PM

Seems to be roughly equal to [Blood of the Old God]. If we assume both of them proc once every 60seconds it comes down to Dark Matter granting 222 AP and 102 crit rating whereas BOG has 214 AP and 108 hit rating.

Tholofonos · 05/18/09, 8:24 PM

Tun received the quest item and selected the ring reward - one for which we need to know the socket bonus. Sadly, he didn't mouseover the ring, but armory does reveal that he has that item (it's hidden for now).

Hopefully, either the screenshots they say they'll release shortly will contain a mouseover of the ring's stats or Armory will update with full stats. I urge others to join me in my stalking of the armory (linked earlier) so we can find out that damn socket bonus.

Litvan · 05/18/09, 11:24 PM

ok.. warning.. nub question (I did read the past 3 pages)

but if I read that chart right that aldriana wrote with BiS items for all 3 specs.. the helmet gems.. are now 16ArP and a red gem (usually agi) so... screw the meta gem completely? or did I miss something here?

• Aldriana · 05/18/09, 11:35 PM

The "RED" listed in those gear lists stands for "Relentless Earthsiege Diamond"

Valen · 05/19/09, 3:36 AM

According to spreadsheet, Mace spec wins clearly now that stonerender is 1.5 speed, even though the sheet does not seem to account for extra expertise from racials. Anyone else getting similar results?

Danen3 · 05/19/09, 8:26 AM

If Stonerender has been changed to 1.5 speed, its a clear boost over Bloodcrush Cudgel for sure.

I'm not sure on the numbers making mace spec to be best with that change.

The rating difference of GSD over Vulmir as MH and Bladetwister over Stonerender doesn't seem close enough to me to justify maces being best.

Also, this may be noob of me but Aldriana mentioned JC/BS being optimal professions. What does BS bring to the table? I've payed zero attention to it.

Feist-Mok · 05/19/09, 9:02 AM

Originally Posted by Danen3

If Stonerender has been changed to 1.5 speed, its a clear boost over Bloodcrush Cudgel for sure.

I'm not sure on the numbers making mace spec to be best with that change.

The rating difference of GSD over Vulmir as MH and Bladetwister over Stonerender doesn't seem close enough to me to justify maces being best.

Also, this may be noob of me but Aldriana mentioned JC/BS being optimal professions. What does BS bring to the table? I've payed zero attention to it.

2 extra sockets. Sockets into which you can put even more sweet delicious armor pen.