So I decided to check out what shadowpanther was suggesting as the 'ultimate rogue pve set' and I noticed it only had 2 pieces of Valorous gear, the rest were the ''best in slots.'' Suggested was:
So judging from MAEP Values the best 4 piece set would be the Helm, Shoulders, Leggings, Hands. With a total of -57 MAEP lost compared to the best in slot.
What would the value of 5% reduction to the cost of combo moves be? it seems pretty nice to me but at the same time unclear if its value would outweigh the stat reduction.
I didn't see if this was addressed anywhere else, sorry if it was and i just didn't see it.
Spreadsheet tends to value the 2pc and 4pc bonuses pretty heavily compared to the stat upgrades available, I believe the general consensus is Frosted Adroit Handguards + 4pc if it's an option for you.
I know when I plugged in a bunch of gear, as a 10man raider who ran a few 25 Naxx pugs and picked up some of the offset pieces (Dislocating Handguards, Spaulders of Egotism) I'm looking at a DPS increase "downgrading" to T7-10 Gloves or Shoulders just to pick up the 2PC or 4PC bonuses.
Spreadsheet tends to value the 2pc and 4pc bonuses pretty heavily compared to the stat upgrades available, I believe the general consensus is Frosted Adroit Handguards + 4pc if it's an option for you.
I know when I plugged in a bunch of gear, as a 10man raider who ran a few 25 Naxx pugs and picked up some of the offset pieces (Dislocating Handguards, Spaulders of Egotism) I'm looking at a DPS increase "downgrading" to T7-10 Gloves or Shoulders just to pick up the 2PC or 4PC bonuses.
No no, i know atm that i'm HAT but when they fix hat i'll want to go either combat (assuming calamitys grasp) or mutilate and i just want to know if the trade-off is worth it.
Originally Posted by Murr
I believe the general consensus is Frosted Adroit Handguards + 4pc if it's an option for you.
I've also seen 4pc + [Chestguard of the Recluse] as the other option. I think a lot has to do with where you are on spec and expertise. I took the [Frosted Adroit Handguards] as they were the first of the two that I could get.
Edit: I need to learn to hit refresh/preview before posting.
It isn't very likely that I will get an Envoy of Mortality (15% drop rate), or a Drape of the Deadly Foe (15% drop rate), or a Surge Needle Ring (6% drop rate) either, but they are best in slots and that's something to be considered.
Nice thing about Surge Needle Ring is that it drops in Maly 10 and it's BoE. We have tried to ensure that we have 3 Maly 10 kills per week just to make certain that as many folks as possible get that ring. That is much preferable to the FotFF model, which seesm to be WotLK's DST in many ways. We've killed him every reset (including the first post Wrath) and saw none. I maintanked a 25 man Sarth pug on my recently 80 druid and of course it dropped.
The lack of good swords isn't really much different than TBC. When specced combat, I think I used the Vengeful pvp swords for a very long time. High-quality PVE swords were not available until Hyjal [Blade of Infamy] and Black Temple Blade of Savagery. [Akil'zon's Talonblade] and it's mainhand partner, Heartless, did not even surpass the Vengeful pvp swords.
I'm not sure why Blizzard makes it so difficult to get decent swords if you want to spec combat, but at least they're consistent!
The lack of good swords isn't really much different than TBC. When specced combat, I think I used the Vengeful pvp swords for a very long time. High-quality PVE swords were not available until Hyjal [Blade of Infamy] and Black Temple Blade of Savagery. [Akil'zon's Talonblade] and it's mainhand partner, Heartless, did not even surpass the Vengeful pvp swords.
I'm not sure why Blizzard makes it so difficult to get decent swords if you want to spec combat, but at least they're consistent!
Mainhand sword itemization was actually quite good throughout TBC. If it fell flat anywhere, it was in fact, with Hyjal and the BoI that was barely a sidegrade from the [Talon of Azshara] out of the previous raid tier.
Offhand swords were a problem that Blizz acknowledged late in the game, and have, on the whole, done a decent job of improving upon.
Offhand swords were a problem that Blizz acknowledged late in the game, and have, on the whole, done a decent job of improving upon.
Hm? If I'm not mistaken, Blade of Savagery was the best non-Warglaive offhand in the game in TBC, and the Dragon-Encrusted Longblade (apologies if that's not the correct name) was a pretty underwhelming OH. So we really had only one good offhand not from Arena and not legendary in the game.
Originally Posted by Aldriana
But while Vulajin is only a pale shadow of my brilliance, he still contributes a fair amount to the community so I'd feel guilty
Hm? If I'm not mistaken, Blade of Savagery was the best non-Warglaive offhand in the game in TBC, and the Dragon-Encrusted Longblade (apologies if that's not the correct name) was a pretty underwhelming OH. So we really had only one good offhand not from Arena and not legendary in the game.
Akil'zon's was comparable enough to S2 that there was no imperative to PvP if you had it. Savagery was better than S3, and S4 - Dragonscale wasn't terribly good, but it was doing double duty as a threat weapon for tanks, and besides, by that point in the game it was pretty clear that they were balancing rogues around Warglaives, rightly or wrongly.
Wrath has been pretty good so far as far as I can see in terms of offhand swords - there's a limited quantity, but there's something to be had at the Reputation level, from heroics, and from 10 man raiding (and the 10 man raid drop is good enough to hang w/ the 25 man pieces), not to mention several 'good enough' placeholder options in both 10 and 25 man raids until you can get your hands on a [Monster - Hailstorm] assuming you're really committed to swords fr some reason.
Hm? If I'm not mistaken, Blade of Savagery was the best non-Warglaive offhand in the game in TBC, and the Dragon-Encrusted Longblade (apologies if that's not the correct name) was a pretty underwhelming OH. So we really had only one good offhand not from Arena and not legendary in the game.
Sure, end-game swords were fine. The problem is, prior to Blade of Savagery, there was... nothing. And I mean nothing. Which is why pretty much every rogue you inspected for a very long time was swinging the Arena OH.
So, I spent some time fiddling with the spreadsheet (version 0.4.2) today and figured out the very best setup before Ulduar for Mutilate, for a JC/LW undead rogue, with pretty much all buffs, if anyone is interested.
Things that might be interesting: 4-piece T7 blows any other gear combination out of the water. All the items suggested on the OP aren't too far off from the items I have listed here, but some of them are substantially behind, such as the [Dawnwalkers] and the [Belt of the Tortured]. Using one Expertise gem is actually better than one Attack Power gem for this setup, but using more than one Expertise gem or a [Precise Dragon's Eye] isn't worth it (first one would put you over the cap, and the second probably has to do with expertise rating rounding). The [Mirror of Truth] is behind [Fury of the Five Flights], but as Aldriana mentioned earlier, it's only better in a theoretical fight, as in, a fight that isn't interrupted. As most rogues will have both anyway, I recommend switching accordingly (Fury for stationary fights, Mirror for most interrupted fights).
Can you list enchants with this? I just got the gloves which would be the best enchant to put on it? Agi, expertise, hit?
I am currently using MH Sinister Revenge, OH Webbed Death. No one in the guild wants another webbed death and last week one got sharded. I was wondering if I should be using x2 Webbed Death. Using x2 1.40speed better then 1.80 Main hand 1.40 off Hand?
I am currently using MH Sinister Revenge, OH Webbed Death. No one in the guild wants another webbed death and last week one got sharded. I was wondering if I should be using x2 Webbed Death. Using x2 1.40speed better then 1.80 Main hand 1.40 off Hand?
It very well could be better, but they are close. Vulajin's model shows Sinister Revenge slightly better, Aldriana's webbed death by about 20 dps.
In practice I'd imagine they are so close that it all just depends how your cycles pan out on any given fight, so I wouldn't bother picking up another webbed death if you already have sinister revenge.
I would pick it up because my offhand tends to be broken long before my other gear. At this point, it's worth grabbing, enchanting and experimenting with, I'd say.
(Note: I bought a Librarian's Paper Cutter off the AH to use as a spare offhand. It's gotten a bit ridiculous to not need repair except for that slot.)
Just to clarify what this thread has yielded to me thus far. I am to use sinister revenge in my main hand followed by murder or webbed death in offhand? I am of the understanding that SR is to be in the OH followed by the faster dagger in MH. I am seeing both sides supported here, so which is optimal?
Just to clarify what this thread has yielded to me thus far. I am to use sinister revenge in my main hand followed by murder or webbed death in offhand? I am of the understanding that SR is to be in the OH followed by the faster dagger in MH. I am seeing both sides supported here, so which is optimal?
Both sides aren't being supported. One side is the current bugged (intended?) Mutilate where poisons double proc off the OH. The other is, before we learned of it. So as long as the bug exists, OH the faster one.
So, I spent some time fiddling with the spreadsheet (version 0.4.2) today and figured out the very best setup before Ulduar for Mutilate, for a JC/LW undead rogue, with pretty much all buffs, if anyone is interested.
Things that might be interesting: 4-piece T7 blows any other gear combination out of the water. All the items suggested on the OP aren't too far off from the items I have listed here, but some of them are substantially behind, such as the [Dawnwalkers] and the [Belt of the Tortured]. Using one Expertise gem is actually better than one Attack Power gem for this setup, but using more than one Expertise gem or a [Precise Dragon's Eye] isn't worth it (first one would put you over the cap, and the second probably has to do with expertise rating rounding). The [Mirror of Truth] is behind [Fury of the Five Flights], but as Aldriana mentioned earlier, it's only better in a theoretical fight, as in, a fight that isn't interrupted. As most rogues will have both anyway, I recommend switching accordingly (Fury for stationary fights, Mirror for most interrupted fights).
Anyone have a list like this for Combat spec? I am looking to switch to combat, I have most of this stuff for mutilate. I only run with 1 other rogue, So I get pretty much everything that drops leather wise.
Anyone have a list like this for Combat spec? I am looking to switch to combat, I have most of this stuff for mutilate. I only run with 1 other rogue, So I get pretty much everything that drops leather wise.
Either the [Thrusting Bands] or [Footwraps of Vile Deceit] (but not both) will likely shake out better for a combat build, which can afford one of the non-set expertise items, but not both, without capping.
Then again, Expertise really isn't that important for a combat rogue, so there's no particular need to worry about capping it. Not that there ever is a need to cap a stat, of course, but while Mutilate has an EP value for Expertise up around 2, combat does not; hence it should in no way be a priority to pump, or cap.
Then again, Expertise really isn't that important for a combat rogue, so there's no particular need to worry about capping it. Not that there ever is a need to cap a stat, of course, but while Mutilate has an EP value for Expertise up around 2, combat does not; hence it should in no way be a priority to pump, or cap.
While there's no reason to worry about capping it, the expertise pieces (especially the boots) are sufficiently superior in general that, so long as you have room under the cap, they're better. At least, that's what I found when I was trying to spreadsheet out a gearset that could swap between the two specs reasonably fluidly.
While there's no reason to worry about capping it, the expertise pieces (especially the boots) are sufficiently superior in general that, so long as you have room under the cap, they're better. At least, that's what I found when I was trying to spreadsheet out a gearset that could swap between the two specs reasonably fluidly.
I find for a combat with Malygos chest as the none tier pcs, you will end up with 25 expt, making the boots of Vile put you over the cap, so dawnwalkers seems like a better all around option if you decide to go with Malygos chest.
12/15/08, 3:14 PM
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