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Old 10/09/09, 4:39 PM   #1171
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
When choosing trinkets in the simsheet, there is an option to desync a trinket. If double proc of trinkets can push you over the cap, it is usually beneficial to desync the weaker trinket. For instance if you use MR and GT, desync GT and you will see a sizable effect on your dps compared to the case of no desyncing. Same with gemming agility for mutilate and then using death's verdict both normal and heroic versions, which can push you over the crit cap - desync the normal version if both procs push you over the cap. An indicator in the top left corner of the Gear page will tell you if you reach the soft crit cap when all trinkets proc.

Desyncing in the simsheet, equips the trinket 22 seconds before the start of the combat, so it cannot proc in the first 23 seconds (for a trinket with 45 second internal cooldown) of the fight.

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Old 10/09/09, 6:29 PM   #1172
koaschten
In the rear with the gear!
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Khaz'goroth (EU)
I obviously outed myself as rarely using the simsheet. Found the option, worked out to a 0.45% gain in dps in my gear. That's little enough variance for my taste to just stick with MR and DMC:G and take the increased defensive stats from the agilitiy proc on top.

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Old 10/09/09, 8:00 PM   #1173
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by koaschten View Post
I am not sure where to place this question, I guess it's best placed in the gear discussion thread, as none of the sheets covers the issue to my knowledge.

Call it bad luck, if you want, but I am still stuck with Mjolnir Runestone, DMC:G and Grim Toll. Since it was recently patched, equipping a proc-item will trigger it's internal cooldown.

So basically I am pondering if it could be more valuable to force MR and GT off-sync compared to MR and DMC:G. I do recall we touched this question some time back but I failed and finding the part of the discussion currently.
To model this in 1.3 beta 4, open up the calcs sheet and zero out row 846. This will force the uptime periods of GT and MR to be disjoint.

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Old 10/09/09, 8:24 PM   #1174
Shaker
AUGH CHAMPION TIME
 
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Human Rogue
 
Elune
How exactly do you force them to desync? Just wait for one to proc and then stop attacking for a bit? Or do you mean wait and equip it just before you start combat?

Consistency. It's only a virtue if you're not a screwup.

Kurisu's BSG Reference Sheet

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Old 10/09/09, 8:40 PM   #1175
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
The theory is that you reequip one of them 20 seconds before the fight starts, such that the first goes off 5 seconds into the fight as usual, the second comes off cooldown and procs 25 seconds in, and so forth - if timed properly, they will never proc together except on the very longest fights... of if there are interruptions that allow them to resync.

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Old 10/09/09, 9:06 PM   #1176
koaschten
In the rear with the gear!
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Khaz'goroth (EU)
Yeah exactly that. Can be easily watched with an addon that tracks ICD after a proc, like Procodile on curse. It won't show the triggered ICD on equipping the item though.

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Old 10/11/09, 8:29 AM   #1177
Ends
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Turalyon
Thought this macro I was using might be useful

/equipslot 13 Grim Toll
/script Stopwatch_Play()
/stopwatch 30
/in 35 /sw
/equipslot 13 Darkmoon Card: Greatness

On first use it will equip GT in the first trinket slot and start a stopwatch display with a 30 second countdown it will undo the stopwatch display after 35 seconds. A second click will re-equip DMC:G.

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Old 10/12/09, 10:56 AM   #1178
orderofmaken
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Bloodhoof (EU)
Hi, just wanted some advice on some gear from TOC. Been running my rawr on trying to find which is a better item but getting some wierd results. Currently running ruptureless combat with soft cap arm pen and trinket. Out of these three chests which is more better between 25 heroic jaraxus chest, twins 10 heroic and knightbane crafted. My rawr is saying Knightbane is better out of the three for some reason, and placing the jaraxus chest below it.

Also getting a strange result on my ranged weapon, currently using [Baelgun's Heavy Crossbow] but says that Crimson star is BIS, dunno if its because my expertise is below 26, even though its not really that important for combat.

Also, If anyone has any BIS links for combat ruptureless cycle gear from TOC would be appreciated.

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Old 10/12/09, 2:20 PM   #1179
Naeramarth
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by orderofmaken View Post
Hi, just wanted some advice on some gear from TOC. Been running my rawr on trying to find which is a better item but getting some wierd results. Currently running ruptureless combat with soft cap arm pen and trinket. Out of these three chests which is more better between 25 heroic jaraxus chest, twins 10 heroic and knightbane crafted. My rawr is saying Knightbane is better out of the three for some reason, and placing the jaraxus chest below it.

Also getting a strange result on my ranged weapon, currently using [Baelgun's Heavy Crossbow] but says that Crimson star is BIS, dunno if its because my expertise is below 26, even though its not really that important for combat.

Also, If anyone has any BIS links for combat ruptureless cycle gear from TOC would be appreciated.
Please don't use Rawr for Rogues. There is a reason that it states the Rogue module is still under development. There are high-quality spreadsheets and simulators available here for both Combat and Mutilate. Use those instead.

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Old 10/12/09, 2:29 PM   #1180
Tinwhisker
Bald Bull
 
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Dwarf Rogue
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Naeramarth View Post
Please don't use Rawr for Rogues. There is a reason that it states the Rogue module is still under development. There are high-quality spreadsheets and simulators available here for both Combat and Mutilate. Use those instead.
Actually, it would be better to go to the RAWR.Rogue developer with your concerns and talk about any differences you see with RAWR and the other accepted models. This would help RAWRs development for the rogue class.


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Old 10/12/09, 3:16 PM   #1181
Bayushi-ko
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Tinwhisker View Post
Actually, it would be better to go to the RAWR.Rogue developer with your concerns...
As stated in this thread on the RAWR discussion forums, there IS no current rogue developer. If someone knowledgeable here wanted to fill said role, I'm sure there are many RAWR users that would be very very happy...

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Old 10/15/09, 7:04 PM   #1182
ivanbss
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Warsong
Hi,

Im made some spreadsheet simulations today with my gear, and im very suprised with the results. Im curently using (51/18/2), and still got good amout of ArP (around 450, Mjolnir and 2T9 bonus set).

#1 Eviscerate Only + weapon Swap ----> 7715 DPS (Evis Glyph)
#2 Envenom Only + weapon Swap ----> 8601 DPS (Tricks Glyph)
#3 Envenom + Rupture +Weapon Swap ---> 8481 DPS (Rupture Glyph)
#4 Evisc + Rupture + Weapon Swap ----> 7829 DPS (Evisc Glyph)

So, isn´t Envenom a magical damage ? (not influenced by ArP) i was expecting #1 and #4 to be a little higher.

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Old 10/15/09, 8:19 PM   #1183
tenaki
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Rogue
 
Dath'Remar
Originally Posted by ivanbss View Post
Im made some spreadsheet simulations today with my gear, and im very suprised with the results. Im curently using (51/18/2), and still got good amout of ArP (around 450, Mjolnir and 2T9 bonus set).

#1 Eviscerate Only + weapon Swap ----> 7715 DPS (Evis Glyph)
#2 Envenom Only + weapon Swap ----> 8601 DPS (Tricks Glyph)
#3 Envenom + Rupture +Weapon Swap ---> 8481 DPS (Rupture Glyph)
#4 Evisc + Rupture + Weapon Swap ----> 7829 DPS (Evisc Glyph)

So, isn´t Envenom a magical damage ? (not influenced by ArP) i was expecting #1 and #4 to be a little higher.
It is because that Envenom ignores all armor that it is doing more damage than an evis that is only ignoring some armor.
From what I understand, 450 ArPen isn't *that* high (just past the soft cap) and still no where close to the point where you'd be using a rupture-less, evis cycle.
The other thing, is that most 51/x/x specs are talented for increased envenom damage. When you were testing the evis vs envenoms, did you change the talent distribution to imp evis instead? That might make the gap a bit narrower. I doubt the use of evis in an assassination cycle will ever pull past the use of envenom though. (Might be wrong here.)

edit: This will teach me to open my mouth before I speak: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...2/#post1425138
So my last sentence seems to be wrong entirely.

Last edited by tenaki : 10/15/09 at 8:23 PM. Reason: Found a new relevant post

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Old 10/16/09, 2:50 AM   #1184
ivanbss
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Warsong
Originally Posted by tenaki View Post
It is because that Envenom ignores all armor that it is doing more damage than an evis that is only ignoring some armor.
From what I understand, 450 ArPen isn't *that* high (just past the soft cap) and still no where close to the point where you'd be using a rupture-less, evis cycle.
The other thing, is that most 51/x/x specs are talented for increased envenom damage. When you were testing the evis vs envenoms, did you change the talent distribution to imp evis instead? That might make the gap a bit narrower. I doubt the use of evis in an assassination cycle will ever pull past the use of envenom though. (Might be wrong here.)

edit: This will teach me to open my mouth before I speak: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...2/#post1425138
So my last sentence seems to be wrong entirely.
I´ve changed all spec and glyphs to try thoose simulations. If Evisc is designed to be mitigated by armor, at some point (maybe only on soft cap), if you keep stacking ArP it should do more damage than Envenom, right ?

I will keep running some simulations, to check how much ArP you need for Evisc>Envenon, and if BiS(ArP) gear with Evisc is better than BiS Gear with envenom.

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Old 10/16/09, 10:16 AM   #1185
azreal4066
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Eitrigg
Iron Boot Flask

It seems to have been overlooked just about everywhere and unless I'm seeing things I seem to have stumbled upon a simple item that, so far, I have not seen any comments on in these forums about it.
[Iron Boot Flask]. This little guy has a brutal cooldown of one hour, but it lasts for 10 min as long as you don't mount up in the middle or die. Which rounds out to a little less than 17% uptime, however much of it you can utilize.

The reason I mention it is because it has a chance on hit to do nature damage 100-150 and I believe it can crit. The actual effect is called Electric Discharge. I've noticed that Recount does not pick it up, however SWStats does. SWStats calls it Shocking Discharge if I remember correctly. Although the damage is somewhat negligible, when you are trying to eek out every .01% more DPS anywhere you can get it, this is a small opportunity to almost set it and forget it.

I first noticed it back when I was raiding Naxx, we were on farm at this point, so for some fun I blew all my cooldowns on the first pull in the spiderwing, Glyphed FoK with an Adrenaline Rush while chain pulling, I took a gander at my damage meter and that Electric Discharge was accounting for 2.6% of my damage. Ever since then I bring it always and use it whenever I can. Besides, it's kind of fun running around as an iron dwarf; I think there is also an achievement oriented with it too.

Now I have not done any testing on this in several months and there were rumors that it was being changed in 3.0.8. It may do nothing at all anymore and I'm not very good at theorycraft testing. Maybe this could be some food for thought for someone.

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