Cally

Abstract

A quick summary of the rogue theorycrafting work to date for Wrath of the Lich King. This
guide is a rough compilation of various posts made on the forums concerning rogue PVE dps.
Contributions made by Vulajin, Aldriana, Tinwhisker, Enova, drumbum, Shaker, spOOn, chalon,
Snowcrasher, Mavanas, and others from the rogue community.

If in doubt of any of the information posted here, please use the spreadsheet.

Read Aldriana's 3.2 Rogue FAQ for a quick primer.

Mavanas' summary of 3.2.2 changes can be found here.


Spreadsheets

Most the information posted in this guide is derived from the following spreadsheets.
Please use these spreadsheets for a more accurate approach.

Aldriana's Combat and Mutilate Spreadsheets
Mavanas' Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet

Beta spreadsheets:

Combat (Aldriana)
Mutilate (Aldriana)


Talent Specs

Spec	Talents
Combat	15/51/5 (5pts in CQC, Swords, or Maces)
	15/51/5 (5pts in appropriate weapon spec, rupture-less cycle build, T9 gearset)
	18/51/2
Mutilate	51/13/7
	51/18/2 (Weapon Swap Build, Ruptureless Cycle)

Rotation, Weapon Speeds, and Poisons

The information posted below is just a quick and general outline of common strategies. Results
may differ for various armor and weapon combinations. Please use the spreadsheet for a more
accurate approach.

Originally posted by Tinwhisker.

PvE Mutilate, fast and flawed advice
Generally, slow mainhand, fast offhand.
Use the highest DPS daggers possible, speed is of less importance.
Mainhand Instant Poison, Offhand Deadly Poison.
For weapon swapping, offhand instant poison.

Priority:
* Ensure that there is a bleed (ie. Rupture, Deep Wounds, Rend) on the target.
* Start up Hunger for Blood.
* Start up Slice and Dice however you please, really.
* Use vanish whenever possible for Overkill buff.

1. Keep HFB up.
2. Keep SnD up via Envenom.
3. 4+ combo point Envenom (ruptureless cycle) or 4+ combo point Rupture (high rupture cycle).
4. 4+ combo point Envenom.

PvE Combat, fast and flawed advice
Mainhand a sword or fist weapon of generally slow speed.
Offhand a sword, dagger or fist weapon of generally fast speed.
Mainhand Wound Poison, Offhand Deadly Poison.
For weapon swapping, offhand wound poison.

Priority:
* Start up Slice and Dice however you please, really.
* Use cooldowns whenever possible. Killing spree + blade flurry, blade flurry +
adrenaline rush can be used. Adrenaline rush + killing spree is not recommended
due to energy capping.

1. Keep SnD up, no matter what the number of combo points are.
2. 5 point Rupture or Eviscerate for rupture-less builds.
3. 5 point Eviscerate if SnD is not about to drop off.

Read Aldriana's post on combat cycles here.


Combat Ratings

Combat Rating Table

Rating	Conversion to 1%
Expertise	32.78998947
Hit	32.78998947
Spell Hit	26.23199272
Critical Strike	45.90598679
Haste	32.78998947
Armor Penetration	13.99572719
Agi to Crit	83.33333333

Expertise Rating

For 6.5% boss dodge chance (26/26 expertise):

26 expertise (214 expertise rating) to cap.
16 expertise (132 expertise rating) to cap for rogues with 2/2 Weapon Expertise.
13 expertise (107 expertise rating) to cap for combat human rogues wielding a sword/mace.
11 expertise (91 expertise rating) to cap for combat dwarf rogues wielding a mace.
11 expertise (91 expertise rating) to cap for combat orc rogues wielding a fist/axe.

The above numbers are the expertise numbers needed from gear to cap.
The character tooltip should read 26 expertise.

Hit Rating

Originally posted by drumbum.

The following values assume that you have 5/5 Precision and that you are attacking a level 83 mob (i.e., boss level).

Extra buffs or debuffs	Specials	Poisons	White
None	99	315	722
Imp FF or Misery	99	237	722
Imp FF or Misery & Heroic Presence (draenei)	66	210	689

The following values assume that you have 2/5 Precision and that you are attacking a level 83 mob (i.e., boss level).

Extra buffs or debuffs	Specials	Poisons	White
None	197	393	820
Imp FF or Misery	197	315	820
Imp FF or Misery & Heroic Presence (draenei)	164	289	787

For PVP, assuming no Precision:

Specials	Poisons	White
164	105	787

Armor Penetration Rating

Armor penetration cap is not affected by target debuffs (ie. sunder/faerie fire)
so the caps are as follows:

100% armor penetration - 1400 armor pen rating
85% armor penetration (Mace spec) - 1190 armor pen rating

Mjolnir Runestone soft caps (grants 665 arp rating):

100% armor penetration - 735 armor pen rating
85% armor penetration (Mace spec) - 525 armor pen rating

Critical Strike Cap

Crit Cap = 100% + 4.8% boss crit reduction - 24% glancing blows - X% dodge chance - X% miss chance

where X% dodge chance is determined by expertise rating and X% miss chance is determined by hit rating.


Equivalence Points

Definition
Equivalence points (EP) is a way to convert various item attributes--such as
agility, crit rating, hit rating, and others--to a single attribute for comparison
purposes. For this guide, all DPS attributes will be converted to attack power (AP),
where 1 EP = 1 AP. To compare items, simply multiply the EP weight with the
desired item attribute and sum up the results.

For example, assuming Agi=2, Crit=1.5, AP=1:
Item 1 - 22 Agi, 40 Crit, 50 AP = (22*2) + (40*1.5) + 50 = 154
Item 2 - 43 Agi, 70 AP = (43*2) + 70 = 156

In this case, Item 2 is better.

Sample EP Weights
Assumes a reasonably T8 geared rogue with JC + one other 80 EP
profession. Combat/Mutilate EP values taken from Aldriana's spreadsheet.

Note: These EP weights are a SAMPLE only and gives a rough approximation
of what to look for in gear. EP weights will change with different gear sets. Also,
the sample EP weights are calculated with full 25 man raid buffs in mind.

Stat	Combat EP	Mut EP
Str	1.1	1.1
Agi	2.05	2.04
AP	1	1
Crit	1.69	1.69
White Hit	1.33	1.18
Spell Hit	1.67	1.80
Exp	1.59	1.86
Haste	1.46	1.49
ArPen	2.24	1.43
T7 2/5	56.2	70.2
T7 4/5	210.7	208.7
T8 2/5	74.8	97.3
T8 4/5	320.4	335.7
T9 2/5	65.4
T9 4/5	111.5
MH DPS	6.63	4.14
OH DPS	2.73	2.90

Gear

Use the spreadsheets first and foremost for a more accurate approach to
gearing. The lists below use sample EP weights from Aldriana's spreadsheets
for a reasonably T8 geared rogue.

T9 vs T8

The general consensus is that the bonuses for T9 gear is mediocre at best
and that it would require about 5 pieces of ilvl 245 gear to replace 4/5 T8.

A more detailed post can be found here.

Best In Slot

Aldriana's T9 BIS Gear List can be found here.
Mavanas' T9 BIS Gear List can be found here.

Rankings

Do not use the rankings below for weapons and trinkets.

Combat Wowhead Ranking
Mutilate Wowhead Ranking

Trinkets

Trinket	Combat EP	Mutilate EP
Death's Verdict (Heroic)	631	630
[Death's Verdict]	558	557
[Mjolnir Runestone]	525	413
[Comet's Trail]	459	467
Dark Matter	439	421
Darkmoon Card: Greatness	383	384
[Banner of Victory]	402

Onyxia Weapons

Rough estimates show that the ilvl 245 weapons dropped from Onyxia (ie. Vis'kag, Deathbringer)
are roughly equivalent to their ilvl 232 counterparts. For example, [Tempered Vis'kag the Bloodletter]
is a sidegrade to [Serilas, Blood Blade of Invar One-Arm].


Glyphs

Spec	Major Glyphs	Minor Glyphs
Combat	[Glyph of Sinister Strike]	[Glyph of Safe Fall]
	[Glyph of Killing Spree]	[Glyph of Vanish]
	[Glyph of Rupture]
	[Glyph of Eviscerate]
	[Glyph of Tricks of the Trade]
Mutilate	[Glyph of Hunger for Blood]	[Glyph of Safe Fall]
	[Glyph of Mutilate]	[Glyph of Vanish]
	[Glyph of Rupture]
	[Glyph of Tricks of the Trade]

Professions

Aldriana's post on professions.

Profession	EP
* Engineering	80-89 (Mut), 90-99 (Combat)
Jewelcrafting	84+
Blacksmithing	80+
Leatherworking	80
Enchanting	80
Inscription	80
Alchemy	80

* Engineering EP is highly dependent on using bombs every cooldown. If bombs are
not used optimally, engineering EP can be below that of other professions.


Enchants

Regular Enchants

Slot	Enchant
Weapon	Enchant Weapon - Berserking
	Enchant Weapon - Mongoose (used at T9 gear levels)
Helm	[Arcanum of Torment]
Shoulders	[Greater Inscription of the Axe]
Chest	Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats
Cloak	Enchant Cloak - Major Agility
Bracers	Enchant Bracers - Greater Assault
Gloves	Enchant Gloves - Crusher
Legs	Icescale Leg Armor
Boots	Enchant Boots - Icewalker
	Enchant Boots - Cat's Swiftness
Belt	Eternal Belt Buckle

Profession Only Enchants

Profession	Enchant
Leatherworking	Fur Lining - Attack Power
Inscription	Master's Inscription of the Axe
Enchanting	Enchant Ring - Assault
Blacksmithing	Socket Bracer
	Socket Gloves
Engineering	Hyperspeed Accelerators
	Nitro Boosts
	Flexweave Underlay
Tailoring	Swordguard Embroidery

Gems

Only the most commonly used gems are listed. Please consult the spreadsheet
for more accurate gemming choices.

Type	Gem
Meta	[Relentless Earthsiege Diamond]
JC Only	[Delicate Dragon's Eye]
	[Bright Dragon's Eye]
	[Fractured Dragon's Eye]
Prismatic	[Nightmare Tear]
Red	[Delicate Cardinal Ruby]
	[Bright Cardinal Ruby]
	[Fractured Cardinal Ruby]
Yellow	[Deadly Ametrine]
	[Deft Ametrine]
* Blue	None

* Use [Nightmare Tear] to activate RED metagem.


Consumables

Type	Item
Flask	[Flask of Endless Rage]
Elixir	[Wrath Elixir]
	[Elixir of Mighty Agility]
Food	[Mega Mammoth Meal]
	[Poached Northern Sculpin]
	[Blackened Dragonfin]
Potion	[Potion of Speed]

Raid Buffs/Debuffs

Buff/Debuff	Talent/Ability
Major Armor Debuff	Sunder Armor, Expose Armor
Minor Armor Debuff	Faerie Fire, Curse of Recklessness
Physical Vulnerability Debuff	Savage Combat, Blood Frenzy
Melee Haste Buff	Improved Icy Talons, Windfury Totem
Melee Critical Strike Chance	Leader of the Pack, Rampage
Attack Power Buff	Blessing of Might, Battleshout
Attack Power Percentage Buff	Unleashed Rage, Abomination's Might, Trueshot Aura
Bleed Damage Buff	Mangle, Trauma
Spell Critical Strike Chance Buff	Moonkin Aura, Elemental Oath
Spell Critical Strike Chance Debuff	Improved Scorch, Winter's Chill, Improved Shadow Bolt
Spell Damage Debuff	Ebon Plaguebringer, Earth and Moon, Curse of Elements
Spell Hit Debuff	Improved Faerie Fire, Misery
Haste Buff (All types)	Improved Moonkin Aura, Swift Retribution
Damage Buff (All types)	Ferocious Inspiration, Sanctified Retribution
Critical Strike Chance Debuff (All types)	Heart of the Crusader, Totem of Wrath, Master Poisoner
Percentage Stat Buff	Blessing of Kings
Additive Stat Buff	Mark of the Wild
Strength + Agility Buff	Strength of Earth Totem, Horn of Winter

Weapon Swapping

Addon

PoisonSwapper - Addons - Curse

Macro

 

◊ Shaker

One quick addition, credited to Aldriana - is that the very rough value of the new RED is between 140 and 190 EP, getting better as your gear does. This value is useful for Lootrank, since it can calculate helms with/witout meta gems. It should be noted that because of this exceptionally high value, there are very few competitive helms without meta gem sockets.

Consistency. It's only a virtue if you're not a screwup.

 

Slyness

I'm not sure if it's worth noting that BS/LW are the premier professions. JC/BS/LW are all pretty close and jewelcrafting could stay in the top depending on gear/socket dynamics, as well as the possibility of new gear being introduced. There's also an additional benefit of getting prismatic gems with your optimum stat versus having to use a glinting or accurate gem and etc here and there. This may seem insignificant but really, so is the difference between the professions.


edit: Basically what I'm trying to say is we're not sure what's going to be the best in the long run, so why add it to the guide.

 

Custardcream

In a situation where your off hand is faster than your main hand because of an off/main hand only weapon, I believe IP off hand would be superior. Might be worth mentioning to avoid confusion.

 

saedo

There was a bump to the enchant AP to bracers so the LW fur lining only gained 64 AP. No more drums and Blizz isn't going to do BoP items anymore I believe so LW is pretty much on par with everything else. Pretty much all of them have a 64 AP benefit.

BS is only better if you use epic gems in the 2 extra slots for 80 AP, blue quality gems get you that exact 64 AP benefit as well. But epic gems aren't released yet as far as I know and maybe by then they'll introduce new stuff to balance it at 80 AP per professon.

Here's the post that summarized all the profession bonuses: The WotLK profession thread

And the quick copy and paste of his physical dps section:

- Herbalism = 66.7AP (average, requires consumables)
- Skinning = 25 Crit rating
- Alchemy = 64 AP (Flask of Endless Rage)
- Enchanting = 64 AP
- Jewelcrafting = 42 AP or 21 AGI or 21 STR or 21 Crit Rating or 21 Haste Rating or 21 Hit Rating or 177 ArPen
--- Jewelcrafting = 62 AP or 31 AGI or 31 STR etc. (counts avoiding using a blue gem instead of a red for meta requirements)
- Blacksmithing = 80 AP or 40 AGI or 40 STR or 40 Crit Rating or 40 Haste Rating or 40 Hit Rating or 280 ArPen
- Leatherworking = 64 AP
- Inscription = 64 AP

 

MasterDinadan

There's something else worth pointing out in Jewelcrafting, and that is socket bonuses.

For maximum DPS it's probably best to ignore blue sockets (except for one to satisfy the meta) and just put DPS gems in them. If you have prismatics, you don't have to give up socket bonuses that would be otherwise, which should count as an extra bonus for JC.

For example, if I was wearing t7 helm and chest, I'd socket blue in the helm to satisfy the meta and pick up the 8 agi as a bonus. I would ignore the socket bonus in the chest (6 crit) and just gem for DPS.

As a jewelcrafter, I can claim all of the benefits that you took into account above, but also claim that 6 crit bonus at no penalty by putting one of the prismatics in the blue chest socket. You already accounted for the bonus of putting a prismatic in the helmet, but when there are two or more items with blue sockets and useful socket bonuses, JC pulls just a little further ahead. Enough, at least, to make it preferable to all of the others except BS. Of course, if you have only one (or no) blue sockets with useful bonuses, then your numbers are correct (neglecting the tiny bit of gain you get out of being able to put red gem stats into yellow gem sockets or vice versa).


And of course, since we are observing that BS is not quite as good as you say until epic gems become available, it is also worth pointing out the Jewelcrafting is way better than you say until epic gems become available.

 

Alphalucard

I'm sorry for my possible ignorance, but may I ask the reason why should we equip faster dagger on MH rather than on OH? Doesn't equipping the slower one in MH enable us to achieve higher envenom damage due to higher damage range (provided both hands have roughly equal DPS) Just a slight increase in our overall DPS i know. Or is there any other more important factor(s) that i missed for equipping faster dagger in MH?

 

MasterDinadan

Finishers do not depend on the weapon speed or damage whatsoever. Envenom's damage is based only on your AP and nothing else. So really, the only reason it matters is because finishers can PROC things from the main hand.

The advantage to wielding the slower weapon in the main hand is that your mutilates hit slightly harder.

However it is always advantageous to put instant poison on the faster weapon, and since finishers CAN proc poisons (and other effects) from your main hand, you will be able to proc IP on finishers if you put the faster weapon MH. Turns out this is more useful than getting slightly more damage out of your mutilates.

 

• Mjollnir

I did not see movement enchants/gems listed in OP. In wrath, are stats scaled to such a level that these are obsolete, or have they merely been ignored to favor 'stand and deliver' stats comparisions?

 

Cally

Vulajin made a post about it here. This is now added to the pocket guide.

 

Xerop

A slight correction. A Enchanted Tear beats any other non-epic gem for a blue socket.

 

OnTheHissay

Not mentioning glyph values in your thread?

 

Nerevarine

there are just not enough pve valuable Glyphs around to start a discussion. Rupture, SnD, SS.

 

Tryss

Nobody ever mentions Hyperspeed Accelerators from Engineering, which gives 340 Haste rating for 8 seconds every 2 minutes. That's an average of 22 2/3 haste rating on the gloves, which I would think is comparable to 20 Hit rating, or 15 Expertise Rating, especially since you can time it up with Blade Flurry if Combat. EP Weights seem to indicate 44 AP is better, though.

Engineering also has the BoP [Weakness Spectralizers], which is about equal to T7 sadly.

So while Engineering doesn't seem to have the 64 AP bonus that other professions give, there seem to be a few roughly equal alternatives. It's worth at least mentioning in the Professions section, even to say why it's not as good.

 

Custardcream

With announced changes to fan of knives to remove the cooldown and to make it dagger friendly, some sort of information in the article regarding proper/improper use of the ability may be useful. As it's also a new ability, it's something people are likely to have far less knowledge of than other topics. I guess we need to wait for the changes to be implimented though to see what impact it has on playstyle. From the blue post announcment it would appear the change is to bump Rogue AoE up to an acceptable level on trash. Whether this leads to a completely different playstyle on trash packs is yet to be seen. A combination of running slice and spamming FoK perhaps?

 

Pittaxx

like you have said we have to wait for the changes as they might remake the ability in general (the bit about not wanting us use it in single targets etc).

 

AsaelWOW

There is one thing I don't understand in your guide, your advice for mutilate: "Two good daggers of different speeds? Faster in the Mainhand."

What is the point to take the faster in the MH with the lost in dps with a slower OH and the OH penalty? I'm sry when i have overseen something but could you please explain why?

 

Deadaim

Hi Asael, you're question has already been asked and replied to by MasterDinadan.

I have a question regarding hit cap. I've been reading that reaching poison hit cap was enough for 25 man raiding and that obtaining the white hit cap was not necessary.
Is that true? And if yes how come?

 

Nerevarine

Reaching the white hit cap was never necessary. How ever as Poisons are more important in WotLK the EP Value of Hit decreased as the white Dmg part did. So once you reach 237hit (asuming Misery or impr FF) Hit is still nice to have but valued lower then Haste or Expertise

Small example: KT 25 last night i did about 42%white 21%yellow and 19%Poison (wound, deadly,env) dmg. Pre Patch white dmg was around 60%

 

MissnL1nK

You mentioned that as Combat the ideal poisons are MH Deadly, OH Wound. I have been trying been trying to test this lately vs Wound/Wound and I can not tell a difference in dmg. Does anyone know the dps difference from the 2?

 

Deadaim

The main difference in dps with deadly/wound is that you can envenom I'd say making it superior to wound/wound.

 

schnaxine

Of course, because ingame tests do not provide the sufficient sample size to verify small DPS differences to correctly answer questions like WP/DP versus DP/WP. See Aldriana's reply to a similar question: Rogue - PVE DPS WotLK Discussion.

But let's look at Vulajin's spreadsheet output, Roguecraft LK 0.3.2.sp00n.v3b:

Settings: no changes made.
Weapons:
Dual Warglaives; 2.8 / 1.4:
DP/WP: 4416.54
WP/DP: 4416.00

Deadly Glad Slicer / QB; 2.6 / 1.5
DP/WP: 4625.18
WP/DP: 4649.16

Silent Crusader / Widow's Fury; 2.5 / 1.6
DP/WP: 4648.80
WP/DP: 4696.16

 

Demi9OD

I believe DP/WP is stronger on fights with time off target, and WP/DP is stronger on fights you always maintain melee range. Reasoning for this is that it is faster to stack DP through the instant attacks on the MH.

 

Maaras

Pardon the silly question, but isn't the chance to be dodged 6.5%, which would mean 26 expertise is the cap?

 

VeeV's

Why do we take KS with the 15/51/5 spec again?

Im pretty sure that 16/50/5 would be a better spec for bossfights regardless if you put the point into Vile Poisons (preferred) or into Imp Eviscerate. For trash KS on 2 min CD is a nuissance and on bosses noone uses it because of the danger of landing in cleave. (and dropping SnD/DP/Rupture)

Opinions?