lerogue

Good Day! First Post on ElitistJerks and French-Speaker so please don't be too harsh on me

I'm for the moment a Combat Rogue. I have the issue of being one of the lowest DPS in a raid. Your guide so far helped me clarify some things that I corrected, such as the Killing Spree habit I must have. I have reason to think that a Fist/Sword Spec 15/51/5 would dominate any Sword/Sword Spec.

When Sword Spec procs it applies MH stats such as Damage and Crit Chances. Also, when using SS or Evis/Envenom, it still applies Fist Crit Chances even if they have their own damage scaling depending on CP. Killing Spree and Fan of Knifes is also subject of MH Crit chances. Is there a reason to think that it's a mistake to think this way?

I'm still lacking a proper Fist Weapon to test it out, sorry about that. But I'd like to have others expert opinion to see if my way would work raiding.

Another thing I'd like to know. I was reading the whole 15 pages before and I had saw many separate comments about gemming. Speaking of a Combat Rogue, would I use a Agi Gem or an AP Gem? this is quite confusing me since I'm a little bit focusing myself towards crit with the 15/51/5 Spec I'm getting.

Thank you for any answer giving on that

*BTW sorry if there is repeated statement that happens. at 15th pages, you can't remember everything. *

 

saedo

It really depends more on the weapon itself. Better to spec around the best weapons you can obtain rather than just fixating on a particular spec. As for AP or Agi, they're very close in value. Use the spreadsheet found at: The Roguecraft Spreadsheet to better compare gear and specs and gems.

 

robfang

Hyperspeed Accelerators will provide 340 haste rating every minute for 10 secs. That makes 56.6 constant haste rating. If converted with the current equivalence points, it translates to ~91 equivalence points. If 1 EP = 1 AP, then it provides 47 more AP than the best available enchant.

So, in the profession section we can add Engineering =~ 47 AP

 

Ashere

It seems that Blizz intends to make Ambush-builds and specifically Shadowdancing more viable with this change. The very minor Lethality nerf would only apply to Ambush.

Garrote is unaffected since it can't crit, and besides it is already more or less okay, in that it does what it intends to do (prevent spellcasting for a few seconds, hamper restealths for a few more seconds, deal acceptable damage).
Ambush is getting a slight nerf when it crits, but in exchange always generates 5 CP's when combined with Premed and Initiative, so it's probably even a slight buff.
The big change is for Shadowdance rogues, who get a lot more CP's for their bucks, allowing them to deal more Eviscerates during their Shadowdance, especially while not grouped or while HaT falters. For high-crit sustaining groups, HaT will probably remain better though.

It doesn't look like a buff for combat-daggers, except maybe solo. For Combat-Daggers it's effectively only 2 CP's (once at the start, once after Vanish) for an entire fight, which is not really worth mentioning even.

 

lerogue

I will try the spreadsheet, but I must admit that numbers are not the same depending on the situation. I'm taking Grobbulus for example, where you need to move, it's not always possible to keep a perfect cycle, especially when you get injected. That's my opînion about spreadsheet, but i'll still have to take a look over that.

Thank you for the answer

 

saedo

The numbers themselves are probably numbers no one really reaches all the time. It's a bar to try for under good conditions. But still a good gauge of the value of gear and such.

 

ILikeUrBack

Spreadsheetings main purpose is to help you figure out what changes to your characters gear/spec/rotation/etc will give you the best increase to your damage in general. If you're doing more damage on a tank and spank fight, chances are you are going to be doing more damage on a high mobility fight. If this isn't the case, you likely were unlucky on the fight (ie Grobbulus really liked injecting you, giggity) or you need some practice maintaining a rotation on mobility fights.

It's really worth the effort put in, in my opinion.

 

Genre

I guess we can assume that the sheet represents boss fights under perfect conditions when unaffected by debuffs. I think the number is just that, a number. In itself it may be misleading but when comparing gear set-ups it will give you an idea of which piece is better. So if you are looking at the spreadsheet for the purpose of saying: I should be doing X dps, then you are not using it properly.

We can also assume, that if a piece of gear gives you higher DPS in a perfect scenario, it will do the same in an imperfect one.

 

Zawinul

The cooldown on Hyperspeed Accelerators is actually two minutes. Also, the duration is only eight seconds. It falls below the Crusher enchant significantly.

 

Tinwhisker

For the 3.0.8 patch, 10 second duration and 1 min cooldown are correct.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

Pierced

posting in simple questions/answers thread

 

Rogi

According to the AEP values from Roguecraft.AEP.v1.2, it says that i would benefit more from

Swift Skyflare Diamond
Score: 44.94

instead of

Relentless Earthsiege Diamond
Score: 42

I don't think thats right, and I can 't really confirm that from Roguecraft LK 0.4.4 since it doesn't have an option for the meta gem Swift Skyflare Diamond

So can I just get a confirmation here that Relentless Earthsiege Diamond is better or no?

Thanks

 

Taffer

Relentless Earthsiege Diamond is better. The AEP spreadsheet doesn't weigh in the 3% increased crit damage, only the agility.

 

Zawinul

I realize that. I'm just saying for the time being that is incorrect, to prevent any confusion.

 

Yozshurah

Is a 5s/5r/5e rotation supposed to lower rupture uptime? because if I want to get a 5pt evis into the rotation after rupture, it falls off for quite a while, sometimes I get stuck with around 17 seconds of snd, like 4 of rupture and 5 combo points and full energy. in this case I have no choice but to eviscerate, and after that I have to renew snd which means an awful loss of rupture uptime. Am I doing something wrong here..?

p.s I've been using 2s/5r or 1s/5r for a while since it's just keeping rupture 100% of the time, but I was quite unsure whether it's better than 5s/5r/5e or not.

thanks in advance

EDIT: one more thing, for someone with 2 WD's and 2 SR's, what would be the optimal dw for pve muti after the patch?

 

Imbattable

Well, the 0.4.4LK spreadsheet showed an significant DPS increase for me by switching from 5s/5r/5e to 3s/5r with the standard 7/51/13 Sword/Fist build, at varying gear levels. Additionally, switching cycles allowed me to trade the (now mostly useless) glyph of SnD for a glyph of AR (currently using it because of the bug and Malygos -> 60s KS CD is quite helpful there) or BF (both glyphs resulted in another DPS increase in the spreadsheet).

TLDR: Use the spreadsheet and play around a bit with cycles, glyphs and specs to see what is best for you.

 

Iluat

Hi guys, I've read the main points of this thread and I've noticed (if I'm not wrong) that the main specs you have describe are combat fist/dagger, combat sword, and assassination (mutilate).
I'm sorry if this isn't the right place to ask my question but.... what about the combat dagger rogue for pve (backstaab I mean)? The spec is similar to fist/dagger, but with the puncturing wounds talent.
Something like this:
World of Warcraft Europe -> Talents
I've not seen anything abut it, I will thank you if you answer to my question.
I'm sorry for my bad english, thanks for listening, bye!

 

Imbattable

This question rather belongs into the Simple Questions/Simple Answers thread, but to sum it up: Combat Dagger is rather suboptimal, mainly due to backstab being a bad CP builder. If you want to use daggers, use muilate, if you want to spec combat, use fist/sword, sword/sword or fist/dagger (depending on what weapons you have access to).

 

Leto

Spreadsheet says combat daggers is about 150 dps less than combat fists with optimal gear.

Basically because daggers needs to spend 5 points on puncturing wounds and opportunity, so it can't pick up lethality.

Rogue at heart.

 

alkash

sorry for question, but i can't find answer at this forum....I got Webbed Death (1.4 speed 156.4 dps); Sinister Revenge (1.8 speed 171.1 dps); Omen of Ruin (1.5 speed 143.3dps); and my build is Muti PVE 51/15/5 i know that faster daggers are better then slower coz poisons proc, and more Crits = more energy gain. But i have Question Kel Thuzad dagger have better statistic and 171.1 dps... in the same time Omen of Ruin - 1.5 speed. Which dagger i must use for better DPS and wich enchants i should make for my daggers? thx

 

Wordaf

SR Mainhand with Deadly poison. Webbed Death Offhand with Instant.

Also, 51/13/7 is generally the better spec...
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

 

alkash

my tallent i have more crits it's mean more energy gain so i can Strike more Mutilates. Now i use SP in OH (with deady) and Webbed Death in MH with Instant poisons; why i should use slower weapon in MH ? it's not combat spec.... and 1 more question Wich Enchants i must Use on my weapon? moongose, Berserk or Executioner for armor penetr.?
And one more pls....i take Master of Poisoner for more white attacks crit, coz i need energy regen fast. Why u think Turn the Tables better one?

 

stedfunk

20% mutilate damage > 2% crit, switch your spec and you'll see an increase in DPS. The slower weapon goes in the MH because you want instant poison in your offhand AND on your quicker weapon because there's a bug with mutilate where you get 2 offhand poison procs when you mutilate. Berserking is the best PVE enchant at the moment. Master Poisoner does not stack with ret paladins 3% crit buff and elemental shaman crit buff so if you have one of those in your raid (which you should) you take turn the tables.

 

alkash

can u explain this muti bug with instant poison, or give me link were i can read this inf? And if u are right then Master Poisoner doesn't stack with elem 5% crit buff and warrior 5% crit buff? can give me link for this inf too plz?

 

saedo

He already explained it, the OH will have 2 chances to proc poisons when you mutilate. And it doesn't stack with Totem of Wrath and Ret Pally Judgements, the ones with the same 3% crit bonus to attacks done on the target.