Cjschuss

So I was wondering what are the best glyph for my 7/51/13 since AR is giving KSp a 60 less CD also. Out of the 4 glyph which should i pick, i know i have pick SS so my question is out of SnD,Rupture,and AR which other two glyphs should I pick.

 

Darkhavans

You're going to want Rupture, and I'm assuming the AR glyph will be fixed soon (unless it's not a bug, which I highly doubt). You're probably better off going with the AR glyph until it's fixed, then back to SnD.

 

LuShiT

I'm currently using SnD, Rupture and SS glyphs. My question now is if it's optimal. With the increased SnD I can use envenom/Eviscerate in almost every rotation, However I don't know wheter the AR glyph would give more DPS. Anyone that have tried it out? And since most bossfights now last for 5½-6 minutes, is it really necessary to have 4 minutes on AR? Will the decreased Killing spree CD make up for those envenoms/eviscerates lost with the SnD glyph?

Another thing I've been thinking about is: How good is Vile Poisons in comparision with Relentless strikes? I mean if we use a rotation like 5s/5r/5En(if more then 12 seconds left on SnD), Wouldn't Vile Poison be a very good addition to damage there Since the poisons and Envenom alike would be greatly increased damage-wise, and perhaps put just 2 points in Ruthlessness, or Imp poisons? That way we would probably not ever have to worry about DP downtime? Just some thoughts.

This is using a combat specc ofcourse.
Something like this:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
or this:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

 

Echophantom

Absolutely not. Relentless strikes is the only reason that 52/5r/5e(n) rotation is possible in the first place.

 

Azsh

Ahh, ok. The point I was wondering about was that the chance to proc (base + improved poisons) is different to the chance to hit. ie. Talented, you get a 40% chance to proc, then you have the normal roll to hit.

Was just curious as to whether the 10% imp poison talent counted towards the hit cap, but I guess it isn't. Thanks.

 

Kireiray

Just nabbed a sinister revenge and wondering if it's still better to use omen of ruin main, sinister revenge off. I'm guessing so, though it depresses me.

 

• Neto-

Considering the guide was posted a week ago and there were no patches or rogue changes at all, one would think it is quite up-to-date.

 

Kumar

Latest spreadsheet I believe has Eviscerate as the better finisher for Combat builds and not Evenom. Might want to change that.

 

Arindelest

What is "optimal" tends to vary quite a bit right now depending on your gear. I've heard a lot of people reporting that 3-finisher cycles output higher DPS estimates, while in my case I'm getting much more DPS out of a simple Xs/Yr cycle.

 

Echophantom

There's actually a thread up right now trying to figure out whether Envenom is better than Evisc, so it's probably not an error - until we know for sure, it can't be said either way which is better, since any data straight out of game is anecdotal at best.

 

natox

my spreadsheet says that env is 70dps better than evi. i have sinister revenge in my OH with DP

edit: standard mutilate specced (51/13/7)

 

Leto

according to the spreadsheet at least, envenom is clearly better for mutilate builds, because of vile poisons and improved poisons (more dmg to envenom, and faster rebuild of a dp stack afterward).

That snippet you quoted is referring to a combat cycle.

Rogue at heart.

 

Darkwyng

Should I open with Garrote or Ambush? I'm standard 51/13/7

 

Kireiray

I believe I read somewhere on these boards that the only way using a stealth opening was greater then running up and starting your cycle was to have a feral druid cat destealth on the boss. However, I think if you're going to sprint up and you don't lose any downtime, overkill might be worth it now (though I may be wrong). In my opinion, garrote (third major glyph!) would be the best option here, especially because the damage, unlike ambush, is much less random.

 

ajpursell

So they are affected by Imp FF/Misery?

Because this has been a debate between me and guildies who say that Imp FF and Misery no longer benefits poisons along with physical attacks.

 

• Neto-

In this very own pocket guide:

Extra buffs or debuffs	Specials	Poisons	White
None	132	315	755
Imp FF or Misery on target	132	237	755
Imp FF or Misery & Heroic Presence (draenei)	99	210	722

 

drumbum

Poisons work exactly like spells. They have a 1.5x base critical strike multiplier, can be partially and fully resisted, and miss at the standard spell miss rates (i.e., 17% against level 83). Unless your guild mates can provide concrete evidence that Imp FF and/or Misery do not apply to poisons, then there's no reason to believe that they don't.

 

natox

well i quoted the mutilate cycle but it is fixed now

 

Rogi

Combat Swords: 7/51/13 or 15/51/5
Combat Fists: 7/51/13 or 15/51/5
Combat Fist/Sword:7/51/13 or 15/51/5


I'm wondering how is 7/51/13 equivalent to 15/51/5, is wasting 5 combo points in Camouflage and Oppurtunity worth getting Serrated Blades? when you can rather get Ruthlessness and Lethality.

explain please

 

Kumar

Serrated Blades also increases the damage of your Rupture.

 

Arindelest

The reason we have spreadsheets is to figure stuff like this out, instead of having to do ridiculous amounts of math for every single scenario. Basically, you get more DPS out of Serrated Blades than Lethality + Ruthlessness, that's really all there is to it.

Edit: sentences start with capital letters.

 

Deathgodryuk

I'm currently running a 15/51/5 spec and I was wondering if it might be worthwhile to drop one point from either lethality or relentless strikes to pick up vigor. With the glyph of vigor it seems that extra 20 energy could really help but I haven't seen any information on whether this would be helpful or just a wasted talent point.

 

• Neto-

No, it is a waste.

 

Thelyna

The extra energy (and energy cap) boils down to two things:

1: 20 extra energy at the start of a fight.
2: A 20 higher energy cap.

Point #1 is a relatively small amount of damage (vanishingly small over a boss fight - 20 extra energy per fight gets less and less relevant the longer the fights go) and point #2 is completely irrelevant (because if you're routinely letting energy cap you're (generally) doing it wrong and should tighten up your cycle before you try and optimise it). There's also the point of having to drop a major glyph to fit Vigor in.

DeeNogger: "No dot timer? Get your belt off, its spanking time."

 

Leto

Definitely a waste for combat. Mutilate not so much... personal preference there I'd say, but that's only because mutilate doesn't have 3 required major glyphs, while combat does.

Rogue at heart.