Pocket Guide to WOTLK (Updated for 3.3) - Page 101

0neLostOne · 12/20/09, 11:30 AM

I have just returned to the game after a couple months break (been playing off and on since closed beta), so needless to say I am rusty..

2 questions I have bumped into upon return.

1. For combat build, instant poison is back for main and wound poison is no longer needed?

2. Is Berserking on both hands counter productive? Does it give more of a chance to proc? or does it proc too much when the main one is already going? I need a enchant that is for interim weapons whilst I wait for a new drop for my off, and i don't have access to mongoose/or want to spend gold on weapon i will be replacing.

ty in advance

Tinwhisker · 12/20/09, 12:47 PM

1. Combat uses IP when you put points into Improved poisons (20/51/0).

2. Berserking is the preferred enchant for both weapons although there are situations where Mongoose on one or both hands results in the same or nearly similar DPS numbers. Only by consulting Aldriana's or Mavanas' tools can you determine this for your own situation.

Slayer101 · 12/20/09, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by 0neLostOne

I have just returned to the game after a couple months break (been playing off and on since closed beta), so needless to say I am rusty..

2 questions I have bumped into upon return.

1. For combat build, instant poison is back for main and wound poison is no longer needed?

2. Is Berserking on both hands counter productive? Does it give more of a chance to proc? or does it proc too much when the main one is already going? I need a enchant that is for interim weapons whilst I wait for a new drop for my off, and i don't have access to mongoose/or want to spend gold on weapon i will be replacing.

ty in advance

Also... to answer your other Berserking question, Berserking from two different weapons will stack. Berserking from the same weapon will overwrite a prior Berserk from that same weapon if still active.

beany6316 · 12/20/09, 7:09 PM

hello there.. slightly lost. getting some upgraded items and use to gem for agi. Now going to ap and am noticing while using the spreadsheet, that if i take all my previous agi gems that up to a point i gain dps and if i put some gems into some slots that my dps shows a loss. Is that normal? i was going to just swap out agi for ap and wait for a armor pen item to drop and go that route.

Thanks in advance.

Serol · 12/22/09, 3:59 PM

Quick question on professions

With the change to poisons in the patch and the value of haste increasing, wouldn't the engineering gloves beat out all other professions by a wide margin? Just taking the glove enchant into account, 340 haste*12 secs uptime/ 60 sec CD = about 68 static haste. With the EP value of haste being 1.9 for mutilate and 1.81 for combat, and minus the 44 EP for crusher, that would make the EP for the enchant 85.2 and 79.08 respectively, unless I'm missing something.

Thoughts?

Docrev · 12/22/09, 4:16 PM

Which is about equal to the other profession enchants. The bracer enchant from LW is an 80 AP increase over Greater Assault, the ring enchants are 40 AP each, and the two extra sockets from BS are 80 AP if you use Bright Cardinal Rubies for each.

Serol · 12/22/09, 4:52 PM

But that isnt including bombs, which were proven awhile ago to be about 27 EP, thus making it better then the rest

lubricious · 12/22/09, 5:36 PM

Originally Posted by Serol

But that isnt including bombs, which were proven awhile ago to be about 27 EP, thus making it better then the rest

It has the potential to be the top DPS profession, but that's assuming that situationally you are in a position to take full advantage of the bombs and make full use of the haste buff on cooldown.

Therefore in a real-world (of warcraft) situation, it may or may not be better than other professions from a DPS perspective.

Feist-Mok · 12/22/09, 9:47 PM

Originally Posted by Serol

But that isnt including bombs, which were proven awhile ago to be about 27 EP, thus making it better then the rest

Using the latest spreadsheets, I come up with hyperspeeds alone being slightly ahead of any other profession perk unless you're dependent upon JC/BS sockets to cope with crit capping issues for some reason (which is, to say the least, incredibly unlikely).

Add in bombs and the situational utility of Nitro's it's a no brainer as the best PVE profession.

Kmannkoopa · 12/23/09, 6:27 AM

As to the recommended mutilate build:

Doesn't Quick Recovery add a measurable increase to DPS unless you are expertise capped (which I understand may happen with best in slot gear), while Fleet Footed adds a useful, but not measurable (and incidentally not applicable to some boss fights) buff?

I suggest that the 3.3 linked mutilate build include Quick Recovery, not Fleet Footed, but perhaps with the caveat to use Fleet Footed if expertise capped.

neg^ · 12/23/09, 7:31 AM

Originally Posted by Kmannkoopa

As to the recommended mutilate build:

Doesn't Quick Recovery add a measurable increase to DPS unless you are expertise capped (which I understand may happen with best in slot gear), while Fleet Footed adds a useful, but not measurable (and incidentally not applicable to some boss fights) buff?

I suggest that the 3.3 linked mutilate build include Quick Recovery, not Fleet Footed, but perhaps with the caveat to use Fleet Footed if expertise capped.

There is of course no real reason for you to not be expertise capped pretty much regardless of what level of raiding you are aiming for. That leaves Fleet footed as the only dps increasing talents to take, as it helps with all fights where there are movement.

I would stronly oppose my guilds' claims that I need all the help I can get to run out of things, and would of course argue it's usefulness in helping me run in to things.

Not sure if the math was posted, but I believe the conclusion was that if you spend more then 10 sec/1 min moving, FF is a dps gain. Either way, FF is pretty much the only good utility talent we have as most fights require quite alot of moving. If not for a straight dps increase, maybe more so for avoiding instant death.

Konorel · 12/23/09, 9:00 AM

Originally Posted by Kmannkoopa

Doesn't Quick Recovery add a measurable increase to DPS unless you are expertise capped (which I understand may happen with best in slot gear), while Fleet Footed adds a useful, but not measurable (and incidentally not applicable to some boss fights) buff.

The problem with QR is that it beings to lose value as soon as you gem or equip gear with expertise. Fleet Footed does not have that problem. Considering that most fights require some sort of movement these days FF is the superior choice.

Sculduggery · 12/23/09, 9:54 AM

I'm thinking that the next time I respec Mutilate, it's going to included 1/2 FF and Vigor. Example fights where it will be more useful include 4/4 current encounters in ICC: Morrowgar, Deathwhisper, Gunship, and Saurfang (even if slightly). From ToC, it is preferred by at least two encounters: NRB and Twins (once again, slightly). Jaraxxus doesn't actually have any pooling time that I can think of, but it also doesn't have any movement requirements, once again slightly favouring Vigor, but without hard evidence. Faction Champs depends entirely on your role and RNG (e.i. how many times you're CCed and you pool or how long the Rogue/Mage live and you kite - which is still pooling time - to support both sides), so it's hard to say. Anub'Arak has anecdotal evidence supporting both sides, but because the odds are against actually being a kiter, I think it favours pooling as well. So once again, Vigor might prevail in all cases.

I don't think the 7% faster movement one gains in reaching a target passes the usefulness of having 10 more energy when one arrives at that target especially in cases where Sprint is utilised. Does anyone have insight supporting or discouraging the assumption?

• Aldriana · 12/23/09, 2:36 PM

So, here's the problem with Quick Recovery. Whether you have it or not, Expertise is a good stat. Whether you have it or not, you're generally going to be socketing expertise to get at least vaguely close to the expertise cap. Whether you have it or not, it's going to be very uncommon to have a dodged rate over 1%. And if you're only getting dodged 1% of the time, the damage gain is trivial. It's not zero, but it's very, very small. For instance, in my current Mutilate gear (at 209 expertise), the damage gain from 2/2 Quick Recovery is 1.4 DPS. If I drop all my expertise gems (taking me down to 107 expertise rating), 2/2 Quick Recovery is still only worth 35 DPS. And, I might note, my overall DPS is lower than it is with the expertise gems in. So we're talking about DPS gains on the order of a tenth of a percent, even assuming you're *not* socketed for expertise so as to be near the cap... and you're better off being socketed up to near the cap.

Meanwhile, on every fight in current content save Saurfang, Fleet Footed adds DPS, survivability, or both. And on most fights, actually a pretty significant amount of these. Hence, I think it's the overall stronger choice.

Now, if you prefer to go with Quick Recovery for the extra tenth of a percent of DPS on Saurfang... I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. But I think it's pretty clear that, in terms of a general recommendation for the community, Fleet Footed is overall, across all fights, a stronger choice.

Mideci · 12/23/09, 5:42 PM

Sculduggery: Fleet footed is useful on Northrend Beasts (sweep, massive crash, etc). It's useful on Jaraxxus (portals, volcanoes, legion flame). It's useful on faction champions (mobs running, fear, various other CC). It's probably less exciting on heroic twins (few portal switches, but not zero). It's absolutely useful on Anub if you get picked and regardless it's useful to clean up scarabs.

As for ICC, it's useful on Marrowgar (constant running from the whirlwind), on Deathwhisper (constant target switching, DnD), on Gunship Battle (constant target switching) and almost certainly useless on Saurfang in the vast majority of cases.

The pooling benefit accrues only when you can actually pool energy past 100, which I'd rather not speculate on doing with precision, but certainly more power to you if you can play that finely.