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Old 12/26/09, 9:53 AM   #1531
Earwen
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Ivanoize View Post
The question is in the math for crit cap, I substract from the 100% as expertise capped -26 or -6.5%?
You subtract 0%, assuming you have 26 expertise (=0% dodge), since the equation is looking for dodge chance.

At 0 exp, you'd subtract 6.5% because you have a 6.5% chance to dodge.

Having more expertise allows you to have a higher crit cap, not lower it.

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Old 12/26/09, 10:03 AM   #1532
Ivanvenove
Von Kaiser
 
Ivanvenove's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Azralon
As expertise capped, I need to gem hit until I reach the valor equal my critical strike rating counting only with my passive stats and does not counting raid buffs?

Or the only way to know it is spreadsheeting it?

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Old 12/26/09, 12:20 PM   #1533
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
If you are expertise capped, and you are stil above your crit cap, you have two options. Either lower your crit by choosing different gear or replacing some of your agility proc trinkets with other strong alternatives, or increase your hit rating thus reducing your chance to be missed and leaving more room for crits.

You should keep in mind that there is hard crit capping, when you are capped without trinket procs, i.e. the uptime of crit capping is 100%. In that situation adding more hit rating to remove crit capping problem will most likely be a dps increase. Then there is also a soft cap, when you go above crit cap only when certain trinkets proc. In that situation, removing the crit capping problem may or may not be optimal since the uptime of crit capping is less than 100%. While the proc is up, extra hit definitely helps, but while it's down, there may be other stats that have more value than hit, such as haste, AP and Arp. So if it's a soft crit cap, you should definitely consult the spreadsheet.

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Old 12/26/09, 12:46 PM   #1534
Ivanvenove
Von Kaiser
 
Ivanvenove's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Azralon
Originally Posted by Mavanas View Post
If you are expertise capped, and you are stil above your crit cap, you have two options. Either lower your crit by choosing different gear or replacing some of your agility proc trinkets with other strong alternatives, or increase your hit rating thus reducing your chance to be missed and leaving more room for crits.

You should keep in mind that there is hard crit capping, when you are capped without trinket procs, i.e. the uptime of crit capping is 100%. In that situation adding more hit rating to remove crit capping problem will most likely be a dps increase. Then there is also a soft cap, when you go above crit cap only when certain trinkets proc. In that situation, removing the crit capping problem may or may not be optimal since the uptime of crit capping is less than 100%. While the proc is up, extra hit definitely helps, but while it's down, there may be other stats that have more value than hit, such as haste, AP and Arp. So if it's a soft crit cap, you should definitely consult the spreadsheet.
So reading you have said I can understand it... Using my currently stats to explain: Crit cap is 100% -24%glancing blows -9,76%=66,24 as result, but how with this result I can know if I'm above the crit cap? I add the 66,24% more my currently passive crit chance?
My big problem is to know how I can know when I'm above the cap, using which methods?

Last edited by Ivanvenove : 12/26/09 at 1:21 PM.

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Old 12/26/09, 2:08 PM   #1535
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
You compare your crit rate with all your buffs and all boss debuffs in a raid to 66.24%. Going above 66.24% is a waste of crit for autoattacks.

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Old 12/27/09, 6:43 AM   #1536
deadaxe
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Blackrock
Sorry in advanced if I missed the explanation if there was one, it seems like the EP value table has got both white hit and spell hit on it.

Does that mean the greater value (being spell hit) will take precedence until one hits the spell hit cap, or the table simply hasn't been updated since the patch that merged both stats into 1.

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Old 12/27/09, 9:26 AM   #1537
RoMStr
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Dreadmaul
Originally Posted by deadaxe View Post
Does that mean the greater value (being spell hit) will take precedence until one hits the spell hit cap
that is correct

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Old 12/28/09, 12:57 AM   #1538
alphax
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Aerie Peak
I have a question about the EP values. Why is it that agility EP is still much higher than the AP one for mutilate builds? The spreadsheets are telling me that I should gem for AP over agility though. Have the EP values been updated correctly?

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Old 12/28/09, 1:12 AM   #1539
 Viper
Eyelaser Ninja Pirate
 
Viper's Avatar
 
Troll Rogue
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by alphax View Post
I have a question about the EP values. Why is it that agility EP is still much higher than the AP one for mutilate builds? The spreadsheets are telling me that I should gem for AP over agility though. Have the EP values been updated correctly?
AP costs half as much item budget as agility, so there is twice as much of it on gear (and gems). The sheet will only suggest gemming agi if its EP is more than twice as much as AP.

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Old 12/28/09, 1:52 AM   #1540
sean13128
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Just a nudge at the OP "Use [Nightmare Tear] to activate RED metagem."

I had always thought this weird looking, most likely just me, but wouldn't something like

Use [Nightmare Tear] to activate your most beneficial Blue socket

be more first time reader friendly. Or some other way of saying this, I get an image of some new guy throwing a nightmare tear into a red socket every time I see this.

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Old 12/28/09, 9:40 AM   #1541
Woj
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Zul'Jin
remove

Last edited by Woj : 12/31/09 at 12:38 PM.

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Old 12/28/09, 1:43 PM   #1542
Jibini
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Bronzebeard
Originally Posted by Woj View Post
RED=Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. Not the color.
I think he got that, but was saying that someone new might not get it immediately.

I know it took me a couple of re-reads to figure out that was what it stood for when I first got here.

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Old 01/06/10, 3:14 PM   #1543
Ari the Red
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Laughing Skull
EP weights question: Let me preface this with, yes I know all EP weights are approximate and variable, and yes I use the spreadsheets, however I see a large gap I want to address; In Aldriana's posts and spreadsheets, she lists AP and Haste as the highest weighted stats for Mutilate, but the OP gives AP only a 1 weight and Agility a 1.94, despite the numbers being pulled from Aldriana's formula's. Is there a reason behind this discrepancy and which stat should, in fact, be the higher weighted one?

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Old 01/06/10, 3:18 PM   #1544
Docrev
Piston Honda
 
Undead Rogue
 
Zul'Jin
Item budgets. If you gem for AP, you get 40 AP, whereas you only get 20 agility. So though AP is 1 and Agi is 1.94, the total for the Bright Cardinal Ruby is 40 EP, while the Delicate Cardinal Ruby is only 38.8 EP.

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Old 01/06/10, 3:35 PM   #1545
Mideci
Great Tiger
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Ari the Red View Post
EP weights question: Let me preface this with, yes I know all EP weights are approximate and variable, and yes I use the spreadsheets, however I see a large gap I want to address; In Aldriana's posts and spreadsheets, she lists AP and Haste as the highest weighted stats for Mutilate, but the OP gives AP only a 1 weight and Agility a 1.94, despite the numbers being pulled from Aldriana's formula's. Is there a reason behind this discrepancy and which stat should, in fact, be the higher weighted one?
Just to follow up with one more clarification. The EP weight of AP is never variable or approximate. It's 1. The thing you are measuring is "how does stat X compare to attack power". (In the example, agility has of weight of 1.94 which means, "I will gain the equivalent of what 1.94 AP gives me if I add 1 agility.)

The follow up on item budgets and why 40 AP gems are better is of course correct, but AP will always have an "EP" of 1. The reason why it's a calculated value and changing with your gear should be clear, but if not, there are resources here to check into as well as the simple questions thread.

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