Pocket Guide to WOTLK (Updated for 3.3) - Page 11

Frorgon · 12/04/08, 3:58 PM

Alright thanks for the advice. I've been suspecting this for a while and will start changing some things up immediately.

Migy · 12/04/08, 7:26 PM

Hello, first time poster here

I went out and tried the HaT spec in our naxx25 tonight and i've no idea how the rogue in the wws pushed 6k on patchwerk.
First of all it is _REALLY_ group dependant... if you can't do 4-5cp evis all the time your dps will be terrible, well atleast mine was. I noticed he got TTT 13 times which i didn't have access to due to being the only rogue in the raid and i probably missed a few shadowsteps but that's about it. I'd be really interested to know what kind of group he's running for himself cause i noticed i needed to help in cp's a lot and he used 3 hemo's in the whole fight.

Would appreciate if other rogues would post their experiences with this build and what kind of group they've noticed to be most effective.

Macabrie · 12/04/08, 7:36 PM

Well the best group set-up for generating CPs would be groups that attack fast and have a high crit rating; not groups that have the highest crit percentage. For example having a rogue grouped with a mage and/or elemental shaman, who both have high crit ratings, would actually be counter productive since they have long periods between attacks.

The best group set-up in my eyes would be a BM Hunter, Feral Druid (cat), and 3 rogues. The hunter, because they have a high crit rating and fast attacks, in addition to having a fast attacking pet that can also trigger HaT. Another good option would be an Enhancement Shaman, or even an Affliction Warlock (now that their DoTs can crit).

Migy · 12/04/08, 7:42 PM

Originally Posted by Macabrie

Well the best group set-up for generating CPs would be groups that attack fast and have a high crit rating; not groups that have the highest crit percentage. For example having a rogue grouped with a mage and/or elemental shaman, who both have high crit ratings, would actually be counter productive since they have long periods between attacks.

The best group set-up in my eyes would be a BM Hunter, Feral Druid (cat), and 3 rogues. The hunter, because they have a high crit rating and fast attacks, in addition to having a fast attacking pet that can also trigger HaT. Another good option would be an Enhancement Shaman, or even an Affliction Warlock (now that their DoTs can crit).

It is from abilities only so all those listed are actually quite terribly. Im thinking more like mages,retadins(?),elemental shamans(?)

sephfiroth · 12/04/08, 7:46 PM

Originally Posted by Migy

It is from abilitys only so all those listed are actually quite terribly. Im thinking more like mages,retadins(?),elemental shamans(?)

Ideally, you'd want 4x Hunters.

4 Hunters + 4 Pets x 2 CP bug = 16 CP per sec.

Even without the 2CP bug, thats still 8 CP a second, lol.

healingtears · 12/05/08, 1:20 AM

I know you say beserking is good enchant, but I have it and it only procs maybe once or twice a fight. I was wondering if anyone thought mongoose is still better. I am mutilate so the crit would be nice for me.

Nyrail · 12/05/08, 1:34 AM

but the only spreadsheet i seem to find is just for entering stats, combo rotation, and talent pts. Can someone either plz link to the gear one, or send me a message with the link? thanks in advance

innova · 12/05/08, 1:41 AM

Wow Web Stats

WWS link to tonights Naxx25 raid. I just spec'd for HAT literally 5 minutes prior to being summoned in for Patchwerk. I had no clue as to what I should do other than try to keep up SnD/Rupture and Evis with 5CP as often as possible, filling in luls in CP generation with an occasional hemo. Basically just posting this so people who understand the math/theory involved can dissect if needed. Hopefully we can come up with more ideal specs/rotations etc.

Oh..my group comp was 2 BM hunters, 1 Marks hunter, and another HAT spec'd rogue. Our guild is only in Naxx25 for the 3rd night so our gear is a but underwhelming and I'm sure these numbers will improve in the coming weeks.

Sadfaced · 12/05/08, 2:14 AM

In an update by the author it is suggested for mutilate that you put your instant poison on your offhand and deadly on mainhand... I tried this and my dps actually went down.

You can double proc instant psn on mutilate but you offhand is more prone to dodges and misses which is not ideal during envenoms, (i also noticed that in many of the examples on the discussion of this topic envenom wasnt being used in the testing)

Wondering if anyone has tried this new method with the same amount of failure I've had with it.

Paxs · 12/05/08, 2:29 AM

I'm looking to gem/enchant my gear the best way i can and i'm also screwing around with a spreadsheet and in this guide it says AP/Agi are equal ( i know this guide is a rough draft) but according to my spreadhsheet no matter what talents or buffs i have pure AP (bright) is always superior dps than pure Agi(delicate). just looking for a little input and if i can trust this spreadsheet to gem everything pure AP.

Leto · 12/05/08, 2:37 AM

Originally Posted by Sadfaced

You can double proc instant psn on mutilate but you offhand is more prone to dodges and misses which is not ideal during envenoms, (i also noticed that in many of the examples on the discussion of this topic envenom wasnt being used in the testing)

Your offhand has the same chance to hit/dodge/parry, whatever as your main hand. The dual wield penalty is simply 25% less dmg on the white hits from the offhand.

Also, the testing didn't use envenom because it was simply to determine if mutilate has a chance to proc two poisons on the oh. Whether or not more or less dps is observed depends on way too many variables to show in the field, especially since the difference should be so marginal.

Any perceived loss in dps is likely due to other factors. It's not like we noticed that switching hands will affect your dps by 500 or something easily noticeable, it's more along the lines of 30 more likely, which is will within variance on any given fight.

Peripheral · 12/05/08, 2:39 AM

Originally Posted by Sadfaced

In an update by the author it is suggested for mutilate that you put your instant poison on your offhand and deadly on mainhand... I tried this and my dps actually went down.

You can double proc instant psn on mutilate but you offhand is more prone to dodges and misses which is not ideal during envenoms, (i also noticed that in many of the examples on the discussion of this topic envenom wasnt being used in the testing)

Wondering if anyone has tried this new method with the same amount of failure I've had with it.

Your offhand is not prone to being dodged or missed more, that is completely down to imagination. Both offhand and mainhand share the same miss penalty through dual wield and the chance a boss can dodge is standard for all attacks bar shiv.

Provided you have the faster of your weapons in the offhand slot with instant poison it will benefit from double proccing mutilate. Aside from that I can only assume you didn't read the author's post correctly.

Edit: and beaten to the punch, oh well.

Migy · 12/05/08, 3:53 AM

Originally Posted by innova

Wow Web Stats

WWS link to tonights Naxx25 raid. I just spec'd for HAT literally 5 minutes prior to being summoned in for Patchwerk. I had no clue as to what I should do other than try to keep up SnD/Rupture and Evis with 5CP as often as possible, filling in luls in CP generation with an occasional hemo. Basically just posting this so people who understand the math/theory involved can dissect if needed. Hopefully we can come up with more ideal specs/rotations etc.

Oh..my group comp was 2 BM hunters, 1 Marks hunter, and another HAT spec'd rogue. Our guild is only in Naxx25 for the 3rd night so our gear is a but underwhelming and I'm sure these numbers will improve in the coming weeks.

Looks pretty good. I think i gave up on the spec a tad too soon and should try stacking hunters in the group. Also there is some discussion in the other thread about HAT bugging when you have another HAT rogue in the group which basically doubles the cp generation or something. You used hemo 3 times so im guessing you were using a lot of energy/gained points really fast which wasn't the case for me at all

Kumar · 12/05/08, 6:30 AM

Originally Posted by innova

Wow Web Stats

WWS link to tonights Naxx25 raid. I just spec'd for HAT literally 5 minutes prior to being summoned in for Patchwerk. I had no clue as to what I should do other than try to keep up SnD/Rupture and Evis with 5CP as often as possible, filling in luls in CP generation with an occasional hemo. Basically just posting this so people who understand the math/theory involved can dissect if needed. Hopefully we can come up with more ideal specs/rotations etc.

Oh..my group comp was 2 BM hunters, 1 Marks hunter, and another HAT spec'd rogue. Our guild is only in Naxx25 for the 3rd night so our gear is a but underwhelming and I'm sure these numbers will improve in the coming weeks.

Were you getting 2 CPs for every crit or just one?

Grimrage · 12/05/08, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Kumar

Were you getting 2 CPs for every crit or just one?

Talking with a Rogue I know on my server who was running a group of 3 HAT Rogues and 2 Hunters. For every crit the other HAT Rogues got, he received 3 CPs. His WWS was posted in the HAT thread. 6.1k DPS on Patchwerk