Ok ty. I was Dpsing Sartharion tonight and in 3 attempts i topped damage meters on him each time, but only at 2.4k dps. I was doing what is said here, i'm still fearful to try my own thing hehe. But we're going to nax now, so i'm going to try doing what i tested on dummies, on the bosses there. I will try Rupture now as you say. Thank you for all the helpful replies guys
The Jewelcrafting bonuses mentioned in the first post are incredibly inaccurate. The base bonus, not considering the advantages of replacing what would otherwise be a purple gem, would as follows (using AP and Agility as a focus for this):
66 AP or 33 Agility. (Three Dragon's Eyes, each Bright Dragon's eye is a 22 AP upgrade over a Bright Scarlet Ruby, or an 11 Agility upgrade over a Delicate Scarlet Ruby). If you add in the assumed bonus of replacing the obligatory purple gem for activating the R.E.D. meta, this bonus goes up to 82 AP or 41 Agility.
Combine this with using Dragon's Eyes to acquire socket bonuses one otherwise wouldn't acquire (such as the blue sockets in the malygos questline neck, the tier 7 pants, or the tier 7 chestpiece), and you have a tradeskill that is far better for raid min-maxing than is being displayed here.
You are correct in saying that imp FF doesnt work with melee hit, but the table you are looking at is the poison hit cap which uses your spell hit %. Imp FF and misery both buff poison hit% by 3%, which is why your seeing the tables look the way they are.
The Jewelcrafting bonuses mentioned in the first post are incredibly inaccurate.
That info from the first post is copied from another thread (linked there too) and assumes the use of epic quality gems, which at the moment, do not exist yet. So maybe a note for the current state of things. But it will probably be accurate in the future if we assume the data mined epic gem cuts are real and blizz will eventually release them.
You are correct in saying that imp FF doesnt work with melee hit, but the table you are looking at is the poison hit cap which uses your spell hit %. Imp FF and misery both buff poison hit% by 3%, which is why your seeing the tables look the way they are.
A slight correction. A Enchanted Tear beats any other non-epic gem for a blue socket.
Somehow this was overlooked, or I failed when I searched the rogue threads where this item is mentioned.
So far we know jewelcrafters can use prismatic gems in their gear which eliminates the need to use blue gems (or purple, actually). So I wonder, for a rogue who does not have jewelcrafting as one of the professions, is prismatic gem Enchanted Tear an option for a blue socket because it does look like it is? How much is it's EP value compared to Shifting/Balanced and if this item turns out to be better than purple gems we have available at the moment, wouldn't that mean that jewelcrafting as a profession loses a tiny bit of it's value, seeing how we added a bonus of not being obliged to use a purple gem?
Hey there,
i was just looking into the Mutilate spec and i was wondering if the 2 Points into Opportunity are worth more than 2 mote Points into CQC. I would guess the 2% Crit would give you more Dmg than the increased opener ?
Hey there,
i was just looking into the Mutilate spec and i was wondering if the 2 Points into Opportunity are worth more than 2 mote Points into CQC. I would guess the 2% Crit would give you more Dmg than the increased opener ?
If not, please tell me why.
opportunity increases mutilate dmg by 20%... not just the opener, and you should open with mutilate anyway.
Oh, should have read more carefully... Thx so far.
Cya
P.S.:
Should i put the faster Dagger in the OH oder MH ?
I read some discussions about it, and as far as i can tell, its better to use the faster one in the offhand again.
Since Mutilate has a double Procrate on OH Poisons.
Is that true ?
Oh, should have read more carefully... Thx so far.
Cya
P.S.:
Should i put the faster Dagger in the OH oder MH ?
I read some discussions about it, and as far as i can tell, its better to use the faster one in the offhand again.
Since Mutilate has a double Procrate on OH Poisons.
Is that true ?
Yes, that is true. It wouldn't be updated in the pocket guide if it wasn't.
Actually, I was given to understand that Garotte would be the ideal opener.
Given the amount of talents that we put into bleeds to increase our rupture damage, I would assume that Garotee also benefits from quite a few of them.
In addition, mutilate is not quite as useful if there are no poisons on the target yet isn't it? Which makes opening with mutilate situational at best I would think?
Assuming that we are referring to boss fights, I expect the damage from a single opener (2 if we count vanish) would be small enough to be fairly insignificant, but I was just curious.
Opening with Mutilate will give you at least 2CPs (very high chance for 3, 70%+ for sure), which means you can immediately start your SnD and then your rotation, instead of Garrote + Mutilate + SnD. Garrote is probably more damage, but Mutilate is more comfortable as starting up your cycle can be rather annoying.
Last edited by Neto- : 12/28/08 at 10:02 PM.
Originally Posted by Aldriana
But while Vulajin is only a pale shadow of my brilliance, he still contributes a fair amount to the community so I'd feel guilty
Opening with Mutilate gives you a much better jump on your rotation than opening with Garrote, allowing you to get up a Rupture before refreshing S&D consistently.
Another reason to open with mutilate, is that you lose time while stealthing to your target and assuming the position *ahem* for a garotte opener. This will decrease your damage more than a garotte opener would increase it.
Not always an issue, as you may decide to take advantage of Overpower by starting from stealth. Personally I vanish a bit later into the fight for this once my rotation is up and running. Maybe I should do both but meh.
Opening with a Mutilate also helps when the Tank wants a ToT right off the bat. Generally more useful (in my experience) on fights with multiplicative damage (threat) buffs like Thaddius or Malygos, and for assisting the OT on 3 Drake attempts.
Somehow this was overlooked, or I failed when I searched the rogue threads where this item is mentioned.
So far we know jewelcrafters can use prismatic gems in their gear which eliminates the need to use blue gems (or purple, actually). So I wonder, for a rogue who does not have jewelcrafting as one of the professions, is prismatic gem Enchanted Tear an option for a blue socket because it does look like it is? How much is it's EP value compared to Shifting/Balanced and if this item turns out to be better than purple gems we have available at the moment, wouldn't that mean that jewelcrafting as a profession loses a tiny bit of it's value, seeing how we added a bonus of not being obliged to use a purple gem?
Well, think about it... the ideal rare blue gem is [Shifting Twilight Opal] (or it would be if it existed). An [Enchanted Tear] provides 6 Agility, with an additional 6 AP from Strength that gains the benefit of Kings on top of that. In terms of maximizing damage output, it's clearly better than a rare Shifting or Balancing gem.
Clarification
I've been skimming through this thread looking for a certain answer, but I haven't been able to find anything, so here's my question:
In the pocket guide, it's said that Darkmoon Card: Greatness is one of the best trinkets for rogues at the moment. However, the link for the trinket shows the +90 strength version. Is this intentional or simply a minor mistake?
It's not possible to create a link to the +90 agility version. The cards are all named exactly the same, so when you make an itemlink, wowhead simply lists the first one it finds, which is the strength version in the case of this item. Same thing with [Warglaive of Azzinoth], you'll always get the mainhand linked.
It's not possible to create a link to the +90 agility version. The cards are all named exactly the same, so when you make an itemlink, wowhead simply lists the first one it finds, which is the strength version in the case of this item. Same thing with [Warglaive of Azzinoth], you'll always get the mainhand linked.
+90 Agility is the card you'll want as a rogue.
Apologies for a horribly off-topic post, but yes, you can specifically link the item you want. If you use (item)Item Name(/item), yes, it'll automatically link the first item it finds with the specified name. On the other hand, if you use (item)Item ID(/item), then it'll link the item with that specific ID. Examples:
I do not believe opening with mutilate would be better than opening with garrote.
the two way of opening rotations are:
#1 garrote-->snd(1 point)--?mutilate to 4 or 5 cp-->evenom. (at this point you start with a full duration snd)
#2 mutilate--?snd(assume always 3 points)-->mutilate to 4 or 5-->rupture-->multilate to 4 or 5 cp-->evenom(at this point u start with full duration of snd and rupture)
the second way seems to be better since you can sneak in a rupture. however,
if you get only 2 combo points from mutilate and then snd, you only get a 15 second snd, which is really risky if you want to use mutilate and rupture and then evenom before the 2cp snd runs out, it's not safe.
the second rotation depends too much on getting the 3 combo points and also best if you can get the 1 combo point from ruthlessness and crit again on the next mutilate.
bottom line, there's a chance after you rupture that you might lose snd, which is why I don't believe opening with mut is a good idea.
I also believe, garrote does more dmg than a mutilate with no poison debuff on the target, and garrote also does more damage than rupture, correct me if i am wrong on that.
lastly, mutilate cost 10 more energy than garrote, which makes your follow up move "10 energy slower"
"
so no matter if you look at this from a damage point of view, or a energy consumption point of view, or even a consistency point of view, there's no reason to choose opening with mutilate over opening with garrote.
as for the argument that you might lose dps uptime becaues stealth makes you slow, just stealth then sprint...
I also believe, garrote does more dmg than a mutilate with no poison debuff on the target, and garrote also does more damage than rupture, correct me if i am wrong on that.
Regarding Mutilate, I'm quite certain that a Mutilate crit will outdo a Garrote on damage, even without a poison on the target. I'm not too sure about a noncrit though.
But Rupture does more damage than Garrote. I used my own rogue's AP to test the formulas I could find, and ended up with:
2018 damage over 18 sec on Garrote.
2667 damage over 16 sec on Rupture(I have the glyph, but couldn't find a formula that took it into account).
These numbers are without talents, of course.
12/24/08, 2:14 AM
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