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12/12/08, 11:53 AM
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#226
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Piston Honda
Undead Rogue
Stormrage (EU)
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Originally Posted by Murr
The relevant point being if you're not getting Berserking because of price (and I definitely fall into this category, Berserking is not worth the mat cost to me with Abyss Crystals as expensive as they are currently on Dark Iron), you're probably not looking at Accuracy either. Mongoose is cheap as hell for similar benefits.
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Of course there's also the bizarre nature of the side effect of the enchant. Anyone is going to have to think about getting an enchant that screws you over for solo and pvp. Do they expect us all to get two sets of weapons? I'm not sure what the thinking behind this "upgrade" to mongoose was. Caster enchants don't carry similar penaltys do they?
Going from an enchant that actualy makes you dodge more when solo to an enchant that actualy makes you take more damage is strange.
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12/12/08, 2:28 PM
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#227
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Von Kaiser
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My guess is they want it to be the DPS enchant, not the DPS and tank enchant like Mongoose turned into.
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12/12/08, 2:48 PM
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#228
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Arindelest
There's clearly something weird going on with the cycle calculations regarding two-finisher and three-finisher cycles for Combat. For example, the sheet is showing a loss of 80 Rupture DPS going from 3s/5r to 3s/5r/1e, although it's pretty clear that you generate more than enough extra combo points (and have the extra ~28 energy to do a 1pt Eviscerate) without losing any Rupture uptime.
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I'm not sure, exactly, but I'd say that doing nothing and potentially wasting a little energy, or doing one more combo builder and potentially wasting one cp proves to be more efficient than a one point eviscerate (small damage at the cost of 1cp and 35 energy) over time.
e: 35 energy, hurr
more e: we're talking averages (as is the spreadsheet) here, there are undoubtedly some cases where what I said is incorrect. These days I just let my cycle smoothly vary over the course of a fight depending on how the rng is treating me. I need to sit down and do the math on that at some point. I suspect that while it may be locally better it averages out worse.
Last edited by laod : 12/12/08 at 3:06 PM.
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12/12/08, 3:53 PM
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#229
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Glass Joe
Undead Rogue
Archimonde (EU)
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According to Vulajin's spreadsheet, hit rating seems to be better than crit EVEN above poison hit cap, and AP better than agi
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12/12/08, 4:17 PM
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#230
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King Hippo
Night Elf Rogue
Gorgonnash
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Originally Posted by Aigriculteur
According to Vulajin's spreadsheet, hit rating seems to be better than crit EVEN above poison hit cap, and AP better than agi
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Those are only rough estimates of the EP values for people to start with. They may not be tailored specifically for your particular set of gear/stats.
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12/15/08, 12:44 PM
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#231
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Rogue
Trollbane (EU)
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I've started using Pawn and AEP values to determine the value of my gear and the value of relevant upgrades. For the pawn numbers I've used those suggested at the first page. By chance I found other numbers at shadowpanther.net and i'm wondering which of the two are correct. I know many people here don't have a high regard for his site, but according to him these numbers are updated for LK and for Mutilate raiding.
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( Pawn: v1: "SP MAEP Dag": Armor=0.001, Strength=0.55, Agility=1, Stamina=0.01, HitRating=0.85, CritRating=0.8, Ap=0.5, ExpertiseRating=0.9, HasteRating=0.7, ArmorPenetration=0.55, ResilienceRating=0.001, DefenseRating=0.002, DodgeRating=0.001, ParryRating=0.001, BlueSocket=16, RedSocket=16, YellowSocket=16, MetaSocket=70, AllResist=0.001, ArcaneResist=0.001, FireResist=0.001, FrostResist=0.001, NatureResist=0.001, ShadowResist=0.001, Health=0.001, IsBow=1, IsCrossbow=1, IsGun=1, IsThrown=1, MeleeDps=1, MeleeMinDamage=0.5, MeleeMaxDamage=0.5, MeleeSpeed=-350, SpeedBaseline=2.9 )
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12/15/08, 12:58 PM
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#232
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King Hippo
Leito
Troll Rogue
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Jehryn
I've started using Pawn and AEP values to determine the value of my gear and the value of relevant upgrades. For the pawn numbers I've used those suggested at the first page. By chance I found other numbers at shadowpanther.net and i'm wondering which of the two are correct. I know many people here don't have a high regard for his site, but according to him these numbers are updated for LK and for Mutilate raiding.
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I don't see anywhere on his site where he cites exactly where or how he gets those equivalence values that he uses.
I wouldn't trust it, but the list is useful to see all the relevant items in a list. Use the spreadsheets if you want to actually weigh upgrades though.
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Rogue at heart.
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12/15/08, 4:57 PM
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#233
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Glass Joe
Human Rogue
Shadow Council
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All specs above are generally considered to be very close to each other in dps
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I'm finding that mutilate does significantly more damage than combat fists(with comparable weapons). With my gear, the spreadsheet seems to back this up to the tune of a 200 dps difference. Is my case isolated, or are you guys finding that mutilate is pulling away as the dominate spec?
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12/15/08, 5:36 PM
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#234
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It's just a sausage.
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Originally Posted by Kelci
I'm finding that mutilate does significantly more damage than combat fists(with comparable weapons). With my gear, the spreadsheet seems to back this up to the tune of a 200 dps difference. Is my case isolated, or are you guys finding that mutilate is pulling away as the dominate spec?
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Have you selected a murderable mob type?
What do you have the fight duration set to?
Combat is most powerful when it can make the most out of it's cooldowns, and when the mob is not affected by murder. It also provides significant 'off the sheet' advantages that allow it to compete with mutilate by providing more utility, better burst, more AoE, and more reliable quick target changing.
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12/15/08, 6:13 PM
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#235
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Glass Joe
Human Rogue
Shadow Council
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Have you selected a murderable mob type?
What do you have the fight duration set to?
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Undead target and six minute duration.
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12/15/08, 6:29 PM
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#236
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Rogue
Trollbane (EU)
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Originally Posted by Kelci
I'm finding that mutilate does significantly more damage than combat fists(with comparable weapons). With my gear, the spreadsheet seems to back this up to the tune of a 200 dps difference. Is my case isolated, or are you guys finding that mutilate is pulling away as the dominate spec?
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Changing from combat to mutilate resulted for me in an increase of 150 dps, certainly not marginal.
Last edited by Jehryn : 12/15/08 at 6:35 PM.
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12/16/08, 1:33 AM
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#237
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Glass Joe
Troll Rogue
Burning Steppes (EU)
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I tried using the Wowhead gem stat links in the OP and to my surprise found the AGI gems rated on the top when everything else points me to AP gems as being the best for me with my current gear. After tweaking the weight stats even beyond normal (setting AP to five or even 10 times that of other stats) I realised that the pure AP gems aren't shown at all when using weight stats on Wowhead. Not sure why this is the case, but something to have in mind I guess.
Edit: Fixed it. It seems that using "Melee attack power" produces no results when filtering on gems/items. Using "Attack power" found under Offensive stats worked. Might want to update the links in the OP accordingly.
Last edited by lijana : 12/16/08 at 1:38 AM.
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12/16/08, 6:30 AM
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#238
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Glass Joe
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Great guide. Could you possibly add a section that explains good addons to use? Like RoguePowerBars to track Hunger For Blood, Slice and Dice, Rupture... that kind of thing. As well as Slice Commander or NugComboBar? These are things that people might want to look into to make it a bit easier to keep track of rotations.
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12/16/08, 7:13 AM
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#239
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Chief Passenger
Gnome Rogue
Earthen Ring (EU)
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Originally Posted by Forces
Great guide. Could you possibly add a section that explains good addons to use? Like RoguePowerBars to track Hunger For Blood, Slice and Dice, Rupture... that kind of thing. As well as Slice Commander or NugComboBar? These are things that people might want to look into to make it a bit easier to keep track of rotations.
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Please don't. Addon selection is a completely different topic, and warrants its own thread for interested parties - either here or in the UI forums.
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12/16/08, 12:14 PM
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#240
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Glass Joe
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Being the standard thought most gave prior to WotLK was "white dmg is king" is there any point or reason now to go past the poison hit cap?
For example I sit at 380 hit rating atm. For boots I have the Argent Crusade Boots of the Never Ending Path which offer a good amount of HR. Am I better served using a lower lvl item that gives a tiny bit more AR, Crit or Exp?
Downloaded OpenOffice and am going to try and get the hang of spreadsheets but even with the numerous pages in this thread I tend to remain a little lost in how HR has changed since BC and fret about dropping it too much.
Also concerning Mutilate weapon use. I am currently at a 10-man lvl and my options seem to be Librarian Paper Cutters, Titansteel Shanker and Namlak's Sticker. I assume the Paper Cutter is the best match for OH but is it the ideal for MH given the weapon dmg of the other two?
Thank you.
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