This should be changed probably.
There are no epic gems available yet. Since blacksmiths get 2 bonus sockets you're basically getting 2x 16 stats.
Which would be 64 AP, or 32 Agi, or 32 Str, or 32 hit, etc etc.

Am I right in thinking they are removing the buff from fire leaf (and fire seed) in the coming patch? Meaning we will loose the 400AP 10 sec buff (66.7AP average).

If this is the case I can see no need to keep herbalism (just that small HoT left) and can switch to something that buffs better. Looking at the info on the 1st page of this thread the other are all equal (BS which will get better when we get better gems and presumably JC?). Are any of those changing in the new patch as well (and I've missed them) or do I get a 'free' choice.

It's indeed removed on PTR, but things could still change. Personally, I don't really think that they will leave the effect on live.

JC actually gets worst when better gems come out. Unless it's tweaked up again too. The only other dps thing that changes is Engineering, the haste gloves become a 10 sec duration with 60 sec CD (vs 8 sec w/ 2 min)

JC does not become the WORST, by any means. A lot of professions add 32 points worth of stats. Jewelcrafting, when compared to epic gems, and under the assumption that you'll be replacing one blue gem with dragonseye (a reasonable assumption considering meta requirement) you gain 31 points of stats from Jewelcrafting.

There is the advantage of getting whatever stats you want, the advantage of picking up any extra dps-related socket bonuses you would otherwise ignore due to blue sockets, and the advantage of being able to gem 27 expertise rather than 10 or 20 expertise may allow you to get closer to an ideal number and make that gem worth a few more points than our 31 point estimate counted.

In other words, stat-for-stat under the worst possible situation, JC will fall short of most professions by a tiny bit. But the long list of advantages far outweighs it.

Thank you, Aldriana. Reading this post was VERY helpful. After wading through the myriad of posts here, and not really reading anything that EXPLAINED why hit is so ineffective after the expansion, I am now ready to finally kick my "hit habit." It's amazing to realize that hit becomes even less important when you take into account the change in windfury, since I hardly ever had an enhancement shaman in my raid group in TBC since I only raided in ten mans. I would notice astounding spikes in damage however, when we were able to PuG one, because my hit rating was very good.

Now, even though I STILL lack a shaman in my raids, it is very apparent, both in-game and on the spreadsheets, that hit has fallen by the wayside. Being exclusively combat, I have always been a Combat Potency fanatic, and it HURTS me deeply to rely on Hit's wicked step-sister, Crit, for my DPS. After many months of preaching against crit, (too a point of course), back in the days when tanks struggled with threat, sometimes, and before TotT gave me my new and improved 5(6)-second rule, I can now see that the benefits of Lethality, Malice, and especially Prey-On-the Weak have tipped the scales unanimously in the favor of Crit.

I guess, my only remaining minor hang-up still relates to Combat Potency, however. In an optimal situation, I have no problem with rotations, but rupture does fall off for a bit of time periodically, if I try for a 5-point evisc. Will there ever be a point where AP and Agi reach a level where there will be diminishing returns to stacking them due to the opportunity cost of the loss of white-damage that missing 16.7% of the time creates. Or are the SnD, SS glyphs and Prey on the Weak just THAT much more OP than Combat Potency, that hit is overcome for good? And what about, "that other spec," 7,51,15? I was really hoping that the bleed damage and keeping rupture up was going to be the difference for combat rogues in the expansion. It seemed exciting that that Serrated Blades was going to be an option, but with the current gear, it's really not!

I have a feeling that in later content, hit will come back into the itemization scheme in order to stabilize rotations again, (provide a buffer if you will), and if that were to happen, it would account for a lot of the missing damage that rogues are stuck with compared to hunters and dual-wield DKs and such. I really look for us to hit our stride late in Ulduar. Pardon the pun. If you look at what happened to hunters, it was almost the reverse. At 70, after the talent patch came out but before the expansion, my hunter friends were QQ'ing left and right about their damage output in raids. Lo and behold, however, as we levelled to 80 and they began to realize that they could basically add one or two pieces of purple and maintain their hit-cap, they shot-through the roof. It seems to be almost the reverse of what happened to rogues.

I have yet to run across a 15/51/5 gear/rotation combination that beats out "that other spec" 7/51/13.

Not to be a pedant, but the English-language way to say this is "gets worse". If it "gets worst", you'd be saying (poorly), it becomes the lowest-value, i.e. worst profession. What you appear to be saying instead is that it loses value. And the way to say that is "gets worse."

Hello Everyone,

I've been wondering about the use of poisons and their difference in dps yield on MH/OH.

I'm using a Mutilate build with [Omen of Ruin] as MH and [Librarian's Paper Cutter] as OH. With the current double OH poison application bug, I gathered from these forums that it is currently best to use DP on MH and IP on OH.

Now, I'm wondering wether or not after this gets fixed it will be advisable to apply the poisons the other way around, i.e. IP on MH and DP on OH, and, be the answer yes or no, why?

I'm sorry if this question has been answered already, but there seemed to be contradictory statements regarding this so I deemed it best to just ask again. Thanks in Advance!

Last time I checked the spreadsheet on this, the answer was that post-patch you should put [Librarian's Paper Cutter] in your MH with IP on, and [Omen of Ruin] in your offhand with DP on.

Post-patch, the only MH upgrades to the paper cutter are [Murder] and [Webbed Death], in that order. [Anarchy], [Knife of Incision], [Twilight Mist] and [Omen of Ruin] are all inferior to a an ilvl 200 blue. Yes, the weapon speed factor really is that important. Yes, that's insane.

Also noting, both [Twilight Mist] and [Anarchy] are an upgrade over Omen of Ruin in the offhand slot.

[Webbed Death] is best in slot main hand.

Vice versa I'm pretty sure. I don't think anyone here would argue Murder to be better than Webbed Death - at least not with a straight face.

Well, that's good to know. When I started gemming Agi, rather than hit, I started leaning toward crit mechanics pretty heavily, because, honestly, I was so flustered at one point, I needed to find a focus on SOMETHING. I did, however, switch gems to AP last night, based on spreadsheet considerations. After reading your post this morning, I switched talents around, and Serrated Blades does come out on top appreciatively. I remember now, that I went crit heavy because I wasn't getting very many ruptures off on heroics and it was bugging me. Not to mention that my crit seemed horrendously low at that time.

Thank you, Tiefling! My statement was uninformed, obviously. There are a lot variables to stay on top of and definitive comments like yours help a bunch.

BTW, is there really such a thing as Glyph of Rupture? :P I still haven't seen one on my server's AH! Grr.

You should post in trade that you're looking for it then as I'm sure there are plenty of Inscribers around who've learned it.

What, I shudder to imagine, are you using currently instead of Glyph of Rupture? Eviscerate?

I had to wait a few months before any Scribes learned this glyph. My server is usually very highly populated so I imagine it might take a little while longer for other lower populated servers to have it if people are unlucky. Though I would imagine by now quite a few Scribes have it on each server if not most of them.

Yes

So after this patch comes out. Would webbed death/webbed death be better than webbed death/sinister revenge?

According to the Roguecraft spreadsheet WD / WD is .02% lower dps then WD / SR.

Edited: I was wrong (when in doubt, use a spreadsheet )

He's right. It's negligible, but [Webbed Death] is indeed inferior to [Sinister Revenge] for OH after 3.0.8.

Ugh, inorite. I am currently using the AR glyph for the KS cooldown, which as I understand it, should be fixed today. My guild's scribe hasn't learned rupture, yet. I haven't pegged trade chat for it, because I have trade turned off. Our server is really small, and trade can be quite...how do I say it...unseemly...at times. I have been checking the AH religiously, but I guess I will go back to trade if you guys think there is a good chance someone should have it. I thought there might be a very low proc rate on learning it, making it obscenely rare...or something.

Every other glyph seems to be readily available, except, ironically, the Bestial Wrath glyph. QQ moar hunters, with your readiness and your volley. What do you want me to do? Huh? (I'm a bit anti-hunter right now, although after today, I might go into /soothe, /turnawayandsnicker mode).

Thanks, again.

I wouldn't be entirely sure about that in practice. Vulajin's sheet does not model DP/Envenom and their interaction completely accurately. With how close it puts those combos I wouldn't be surprised if WD/WD was actually better. In the end I doubt it really matters, use whichever ones you have already.