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Old 11/25/08, 4:49 AM   #16
Pittaxx
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Al'Akir (EU)
like you have said we have to wait for the changes as they might remake the ability in general (the bit about not wanting us use it in single targets etc).

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Old 11/25/08, 5:56 AM   #17
AsaelWOW
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Terrordar (EU)
There is one thing I don't understand in your guide, your advice for mutilate: "Two good daggers of different speeds? Faster in the Mainhand."

What is the point to take the faster in the MH with the lost in dps with a slower OH and the OH penalty? I'm sry when i have overseen something but could you please explain why?

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Old 11/25/08, 6:45 AM   #18
Deadaim
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Sargeras (EU)
Originally Posted by MasterDinadan View Post
Finishers do not depend on the weapon speed or damage whatsoever. Envenom's damage is based only on your AP and nothing else. So really, the only reason it matters is because finishers can PROC things from the main hand.

The advantage to wielding the slower weapon in the main hand is that your mutilates hit slightly harder.

However it is always advantageous to put instant poison on the faster weapon, and since finishers CAN proc poisons (and other effects) from your main hand, you will be able to proc IP on finishers if you put the faster weapon MH. Turns out this is more useful than getting slightly more damage out of your mutilates.
Hi Asael, you're question has already been asked and replied to by MasterDinadan.

I have a question regarding hit cap. I've been reading that reaching poison hit cap was enough for 25 man raiding and that obtaining the white hit cap was not necessary.
Is that true? And if yes how come?

Last edited by Deadaim : 11/25/08 at 6:54 AM.

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Old 11/25/08, 7:27 AM   #19
Nerevarine
Von Kaiser
 
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Undead Rogue
 
Proudmoore (EU)
Originally Posted by Deadaim View Post
Hi Asael, you're question has already been asked and replied to by MasterDinadan.

I have a question regarding hit cap. I've been reading that reaching poison hit cap was enough for 25 man raiding and that obtaining the white hit cap was not necessary.
Is that true? And if yes how come?
Reaching the white hit cap was never necessary. How ever as Poisons are more important in WotLK the EP Value of Hit decreased as the white Dmg part did. So once you reach 237hit (asuming Misery or impr FF) Hit is still nice to have but valued lower then Haste or Expertise

Small example: KT 25 last night i did about 42%white 21%yellow and 19%Poison (wound, deadly,env) dmg. Pre Patch white dmg was around 60%

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Old 11/25/08, 7:48 AM   #20
MissnL1nK
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Shaman
 
Kel'Thuzad
You mentioned that as Combat the ideal poisons are MH Deadly, OH Wound. I have been trying been trying to test this lately vs Wound/Wound and I can not tell a difference in dmg. Does anyone know the dps difference from the 2?

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Old 11/25/08, 8:00 AM   #21
Deadaim
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Sargeras (EU)
The main difference in dps with deadly/wound is that you can envenom I'd say making it superior to wound/wound.

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Old 11/25/08, 8:37 AM   #22
schnaxine
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Stormrage (EU)
Originally Posted by MissnL1nK View Post
You mentioned that as Combat the ideal poisons are MH Deadly, OH Wound. I have been trying been trying to test this lately vs Wound/Wound and I can not tell a difference in dmg.
Of course, because ingame tests do not provide the sufficient sample size to verify small DPS differences to correctly answer questions like WP/DP versus DP/WP. See Aldriana's reply to a similar question: Rogue - PVE DPS WotLK Discussion.

But let's look at Vulajin's spreadsheet output, Roguecraft LK 0.3.2.sp00n.v3b:

Settings: no changes made.
Weapons:
Dual Warglaives; 2.8 / 1.4:
DP/WP: 4416.54
WP/DP: 4416.00

Deadly Glad Slicer / QB; 2.6 / 1.5
DP/WP: 4625.18
WP/DP: 4649.16

Silent Crusader / Widow's Fury; 2.5 / 1.6
DP/WP: 4648.80
WP/DP: 4696.16

Last edited by schnaxine : 11/25/08 at 9:58 AM.

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Old 11/25/08, 10:30 AM   #23
Demi9OD
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Warlock
 
Shadowmoon
I believe DP/WP is stronger on fights with time off target, and WP/DP is stronger on fights you always maintain melee range. Reasoning for this is that it is faster to stack DP through the instant attacks on the MH.

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Old 11/25/08, 11:05 AM   #24
Maaras
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Cally View Post
Expertise Rating

From Enova's post.

25 expertise (205 expertise rating) to cap.
Pardon the silly question, but isn't the chance to be dodged 6.5%, which would mean 26 expertise is the cap?

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Old 11/25/08, 11:10 AM   #25
VeeV's
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Rogue
 
Neptulon (EU)
Why do we take KS with the 15/51/5 spec again?

Im pretty sure that 16/50/5 would be a better spec for bossfights regardless if you put the point into Vile Poisons (preferred) or into Imp Eviscerate. For trash KS on 2 min CD is a nuissance and on bosses noone uses it because of the danger of landing in cleave. (and dropping SnD/DP/Rupture)

Opinions?

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Old 11/25/08, 11:22 AM   #26
MissnL1nK
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Shaman
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by VeeV's View Post
Why do we take KS with the 15/51/5 spec again?

Im pretty sure that 16/50/5 would be a better spec for bossfights regardless if you put the point into Vile Poisons (preferred) or into Imp Eviscerate. For trash KS on 2 min CD is a nuissance and on bosses noone uses it because of the danger of landing in cleave. (and dropping SnD/DP/Rupture)

Opinions?
Its a situational talent that does good damage. You just have to be smart when you use it and not an idiot. I have also noticed that when on a boss if you use when you are directly behind him you will not move at all when you use KS so the cleave shouldn't be an issue. Just make sure there aren't any other mobs around when you pop it.

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Old 11/25/08, 11:35 AM   #27
Tinwhisker
Bald Bull
 
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Dwarf Rogue
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by VeeV's View Post
Why do we take KS with the 15/51/5 spec again?

Im pretty sure that 16/50/5 would be a better spec for bossfights regardless if you put the point into Vile Poisons (preferred) or into Imp Eviscerate. For trash KS on 2 min CD is a nuissance and on bosses noone uses it because of the danger of landing in cleave. (and dropping SnD/DP/Rupture)

Opinions?
In a perfect world where you spend all your time on a boss who swivels like an office chair and spams cleave without having to burn down adds, yes, that would appear right. That never happens though.

In reality (did I just refer to WoW as reality?) very few boss fights will have you just sitting there in 'spank mode'. Killing spree is undeniably good burst damage and I've found it quite useful on trash and boss adds; this is undeniable. Yes, sometimes you do have to be careful about cleaves during boss encounters but it's really just an annoyance that you have to be aware of; pick your uses carefully and you'll be just fine.

As for dropping SnD/DP/Rup when you use it... no, that doesn't happen unless you choose to use KSp over refreshing SnD. It's 2.5 seconds, that's it.

Originally I was pretty 'meh' about KSp but I've really warmed up to it despite it's limitations. I still get 'invalid target' errors when I'm in phased content and it's annoying when you don't end up back near your target but neither of those are game-breaking.


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Old 11/25/08, 12:10 PM   #28
Demi9OD
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Warlock
 
Shadowmoon
Originally Posted by VeeV's View Post
Why do we take KS with the 15/51/5 spec again?

Im pretty sure that 16/50/5 would be a better spec for bossfights regardless if you put the point into Vile Poisons (preferred) or into Imp Eviscerate. For trash KS on 2 min CD is a nuissance and on bosses noone uses it because of the danger of landing in cleave. (and dropping SnD/DP/Rupture)

Opinions?
Killing Spree on a 120 second fight is 2-3% of my damage contribution. Killing Spree can be used to avoid stuns and CCs. Killing Spree with Blade Flurry destroys fights with closely grouped adds. Killing Spree allows you to attack targets as they take flight or otherwise leave melee range. Killing Spree gets your 5 stack of deadly running way faster than just auto attacking. Just learn the fights and learn to use it.

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Old 11/25/08, 12:17 PM   #29
Brimm
Slayer of Gnomes
 
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Undead Rogue
 
Zul'Jin
Not to mention KS is a great way to get a good threat lead to your tank in the first few seconds of a fight with ToTT. It's not perfect, it has limitations, but for 1pt it's a pretty decent talent.

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Old 11/25/08, 1:38 PM   #30
Ghost
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Lightninghoof
Killing Spree can be used to avoid stuns and CCs.
This. Be creative with this use of Killing Spree and you will find it is VERY useful on some boss encounters.

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