Finally, we have bombs. A bomb does 1325 base damage, increased 13% by raid buffs, reduced by 6% due to resists, and increased by around 15% due to spell crit. Thus, we estimate the average damage in reality is around 1600; with a 60 sec cooldown, this works out to around 27 DPS, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 EP if used on cooldown.
Thus, the total theoretical benefit of engineering is around 47 + 2 + 10 + 30 = 89 for Mutilate, and 99 for Combat... assuming you use everything on cooldown. If, however, you are consistently 5 seconds late on using Hyperspeed Accelerators, or don't feel like burning through a hundred bombs a night, or otherwise fail to use the profession to it's absolute fullest, it's value is somewhat lower. For instance, if you use bombs and accelerators every 65 seconds instead of every 60, the total benefit drops to 80/90; and every fight you skip using bombs entirely on drops engineering to the bottom of the heap.
Recently picked up engineering mainly for pvp benefits but pve as well. I was scanning this post and wouldn't it only be true that only if you consistently delayed your cooldowns on abilities enough that you ended up losing one of the cds due to the delay that it would be a dps loss?
In other words, if say a fight was 4:30 seconds long and I delayed say my first bomb by 10 seconds to wait for debuffs to go up and used it on cd the rest of the fight. That should equal to be more damage than just using it on cd as all your bombs are buffed, you are not missing a 5th bomb since the fight does not last long enough for a 5th bomb. In both scenarios you will get four bombs off, but in mine all four of my bombs are buffed meanwhile you're likely to use an unbuffed bomb using it immediately as the fight starts. Extend that logic to haste gloves as well.
No, you're correct in your analysis. Note, however, that one needs to be careful as not all fights are a 100% consistent length. If you're confident in the exact length of the fight you can indeed delay so long as you get the maximal number in; but if a fight varies in length by a nontrivial amount it tends to be somewhat important to use them aggressively so as to not to miss one at the end of the fight.
I noticed Death's Verdict doesn't have race restrictions, once faction changes are in effect, I wonder if you could pull off having a Death's Verdict and a Death's Choice. Or if Blizz will force the item ID to change when you change factions.
Is there any chance the weapons/trinket lists (or in fact the entire OP) being updated for 3.2? Using the spreadsheet for now, but for quick reference the lists are great.
I am using Aldriana's spread sheet and think its awesome but i've hit a snag.
Shadowpanther says the neck "favor of the dragon queen" is better than Broach of wailing night" but the spread sheet does not allow it as a drop down option.
It has a gem spot so it theres alot of play there.
Is there a way i can add it myself or is shadow panther possibly wrong?
Aldriana's 1.2 sheet has that neck removed. It's being added back in when Aldriana's next sheet gets released.
Shadowpanther is not really a great source for finding out which piece is better than another, simply because the calculations he does are not accurate enough. He takes every piece at face value, and uses his AEP formula to find outs its total point value, and does not take into account the rest of your stats that change if you replace a piece of gear. Its a great place to find potential upgrades, and then put them into a spreadsheet to see its real value with the rest of your gear. Favor is optimal when you're just starting out in Ulduar and dont have 4T8. Once you get 4T8, the agility on Broach outweighs the slight loss of ArP, because you're getting more out of your Ruptures. If you really wanted to test them out, you could add in Favor to your sheet, and see which piece is better with your current gear.
I am using Aldriana's spread sheet and think its awesome but i've hit a snag.
Shadowpanther says the neck "favor of the dragon queen" is better than Broach of wailing night" but the spread sheet does not allow it as a drop down option.
It has a gem spot so it theres alot of play there.
Is there a way i can add it myself or is shadow panther possibly wrong?
Your advice is appreciated.
Rock
If you go to Format -> Sheet -> Unhide, and choose Gear, you'll get the gear spreadsheet that has all the information about any of the gear you can choose in the Equipment sheet. To add in Favor of the Dragon Queen I would Insert a new row, copy the entire row for Pendulum of Infinity (if it happens to be in row 16, click on the Number 16, you should get a sideways arrow, then choose copy), and paste it in the new row you just created. Change the name to Favor of the Dragon Queen, and then all you should have to do is change the stats to what match the FotDG piece. Since Pendulum already has a socket (and a blue one at that) you shouldn't have to mess with any of the socket information.
The Serrated Blades spec is not a better option once you reach 4p T8, there was a miscalculation in the way ArP was handled in the spreadsheet which made it look like Serrated Blades was better.
I don't think serrated blades was ever genuinely considered viable for combat anyway, I am not sure if this is because it was inferior even with the miscalculation, or if the miscalculation never applied to that sheet.
If you go to Format -> Sheet -> Unhide, and choose Gear, you'll get the gear spreadsheet that has all the information about any of the gear you can choose in the Equipment sheet. To add in Favor of the Dragon Queen I would Insert a new row, copy the entire row for Pendulum of Infinity (if it happens to be in row 16, click on the Number 16, you should get a sideways arrow, then choose copy), and paste it in the new row you just created. Change the name to Favor of the Dragon Queen, and then all you should have to do is change the stats to what match the FotDG piece. Since Pendulum already has a socket (and a blue one at that) you shouldn't have to mess with any of the socket information.
You'll also need to edit the listname to reflect the fact it now has one extra row in it, at least that's what I need to do in both Excel 2000 and OO. In Excel, this is "Insert, Name, Define" then change the values for Necks (if it's a Necklace you're adding) to include the extra row.
If you go to Format -> Sheet -> Unhide, and choose Gear, you'll get the gear spreadsheet that has all the information about any of the gear you can choose in the Equipment sheet. To add in Favor of the Dragon Queen I would Insert a new row, copy the entire row for Pendulum of Infinity (if it happens to be in row 16, click on the Number 16, you should get a sideways arrow, then choose copy), and paste it in the new row you just created. Change the name to Favor of the Dragon Queen, and then all you should have to do is change the stats to what match the FotDG piece. Since Pendulum already has a socket (and a blue one at that) you shouldn't have to mess with any of the socket information.
Thanks alot for the info,
I got about half way done and realized i didnt know the stats to fill in.
You'll also need to edit the listname to reflect the fact it now has one extra row in it, at least that's what I need to do in both Excel 2000 and OO. In Excel, this is "Insert, Name, Define" then change the values for Necks (if it's a Necklace you're adding) to include the extra row.
You don't need to do this if you insert the blank row into the middle of the section, rather than at the beginning or end.
With my rudimentary understanding of statistic weights, the haste on the Mark of Supremacy is equal to 747.52 AP, which would make the Shard of the Crystal Heart much better.
However, Maxdps.com has the Mark of Supremacy rated much higher, and Rawr has them exactly even.
Okay, new BIS proposal. As usual, all drops are heroic if available:
T9 Helm, Shoulders, Chest, and Legs
Collar of Ceaseless Torment
Vereesa's Dexterity
Bracers of Dark Determination
Gloves of the Silver Assassin
Belt of the Merciless Killer
Treads of the Icewalker
Ring of Callous Aggression
Planestalker Signet
Death's Verdict
Comet's Trail
Remorseless
Steel Bladebreaker
Talonstrike
BS/JC
1 Nightmare Tear in the helm, everything else straight ArPen.
All enchants the obvious thing; boots are Cat's Swiftness, not because it's best for sustained DPS but because I suspect we'll find it to be a good idea in general from what I've seen so far.
As a check, fully enchanted and gemmed, this comes out to:
20 Str
1419 Agi
1467 Sta
2645 AP
651 Crit Rating
417 Hit Rating
154 Expertise Rating
194 Haste Rating
1007 ArPen Rating
So, food is ArPen, flask as usual, target fully debuffed, 5/5 Mace Spec, 1/5 CQC, Haste Potion used once in a 5 min fight.
So, at 15/51/5, doing the usual Xs5r5e cycle, this comes out to do 9884.1 DPS. Which is pretty good. But here's where it gets wierd.
If we drop Glyph of Rupture for Glyph of Evis, and 2 points of Blood Spatter and 1 of Ruthlessness to get 3/3 Improved Eviscerate, and then drop Rupture from our cycles entirely and just do Xs5e5e, that number goes up to 9945.0. And if we replace that cycle with the optimal one (which I'll define in a moment), our estimate gets all the way up to 9979.8. (And if we switch to Icewalker on Boots, we crack the 10k mark - 10008.8. But that's sort of a separate issue).
So, what is this optimal cycle? Briefly stated, the priority is to refresh SnD early as little as possible. Hence: we perform an SnD. We then build 5 CPs. If there are 5 seconds or less on SnD, we pool energy as high as we dare, and then refresh SnD. Otherwise, we drop an Evis and start building CPs again. If at any time SnD has less than 2 seconds left, we just refresh it with whatever CPs we have. That is: the priority is to refresh it as late as possible, more so than worrying about how big the SnD winds up being.
Note, of course, that this only works at extremely high gear levels. But assuming you do have said very high gear level, this appears to be optimal.
With your suggested BiS Aldriana, I'm assuming this is due to the fact that your Alliance and unfortunately don't have access to Hordes' 1.5 Axe - [Blood Fury]? This being the case, I then assume it would be more advisable for Horde players to go - Hellscream Slicer [Heroic] /// Blood Fury [Heroic] (Obviously with 5/5 Hack & Slash)?
This was based on quick testing in the 1.2 Spreadsheet.
With my rudimentary understanding of statistic weights, the haste on the Mark of Supremacy is equal to 747.52 AP, which would make the Shard of the Crystal Heart much better.
However, Maxdps.com has the Mark of Supremacy rated much higher, and Rawr has them exactly even.
Could someone help me out here.
There's a small flaw in your logic: A Stat having an EP value of 1.46, or shall I rather say, in our case, an APEP value of 1.46 means that 1 point of this stat is worth as much as 1.46 AP.
However, you calculated the ep value of the Haste On-Use correctly, but you confused the two trinkets; Mark of Supremacy is the one with the AP effect and the Shard has the Haste effect, thus leading to the higher rating of the Mark vs the Shard, as 1024 AP is worth more than 512 Haste Rating.
Alliance axe is now 1.5 speed as well. And even with that, mace spec is just so stupidly powerful at the levels of ArPen we're talking that mace/dagger beats axe/axe anyway.
Alliance axe is now 1.5 speed as well. And even with that, mace spec is just so stupidly powerful at the levels of ArPen we're talking that mace/dagger beats axe/axe anyway.
Understood, however at low level/gearing up til BiS - I'd assume Mace/Dagger doesn't come into play? This is simply based on a quick hack in 1.2 comparing my current BiS Uldar/Early non-H ToC gear with Mace/Dag vs. Axe/Axe (Axe/Axe came out on top) - but as you mentioned this is no doubt due to low lvl ArPen gear.
Just thinking about min/max for Guild and if I should be moving from Golden/Stygian straight to Mace/H Stygian or since no MH Mace drops normal 25 - make the move to Axe/Axe first.
I asked this awhile back, but want to reiterate with the t9 2 pc in mind (not that I'd use it anytime soon with my gear (4 pc t8)); assume this situation:
You have 5 Combo Points. Slice and Dice is at 25 seconds. Rupture is at 5 seconds.
You have a warrior so you are not inclined to use EA.
You have 20 energy. Blade Flurry is active. Adrenaline Rush is not. Your options are:
-Eviscerate, rebuild up to a Rupture with a risk of moderate / large Rupture downtime (and less chance of proccing the set bonus if acquired)
-Pool up, you generate energy through CP, and cap, wait until Rupture falls before reapplying and "uncapping".
-Pool up, you generate energy through CP, use a Sinister Strike (wasted CP) to avoid capping and reapplying Rupture when it falls.
-Pool up, you generate energy through CP, clip Rupture (being very careful to only clip one tick), thus wasting a Rupture tick yet assuring Rupture uptime.
The answer is pool as high as you dare, and then rupture if the previous Rupture is still going and Rupture if it isn't. Basically, the damage contribution of 2/5 T9 isn't very large, so plays very little role in this sort of decision, and assuming that your gear is good enough to be breaking 4/5 T8, the damage difference between Eviscerate and Rupture is small enough that you don't actually lose very much damage by having Rupture down for a bit.
Where this question would be somewhat difficult to answer is with 4/5 T8, which makes good rupture uptime vastly more important. Of course, the correct solution in that case is to craft your cycle so as never to be in that position in the first place.
Small-case "rupture" in the previous post, probably has to be replaced with "eviscerate." I just have a question, what's the gain from pooling energy in this situation as opposed to eviscerating right away and then rebuilding for a rupture?
Well, pooling doesn't hurt anything - building the next rupture is energy-limited rather than GCD-limited, so pooling has no bearing on when the next Rupture is going to occur; and if you happen to not get any combat potency procs in that time, you may be able to stall long enough to rupture rather than needing to weave an eviscerate. I mean, if it's actually 20 energy and actually 5 seconds, probably not, but if we're talking 18 energy and 4.5 seconds, it starts to look pretty feasible. Basically, the reason in short is "because there's no reason not to".
Well the person who asked the question, did it with t9 in mind, so if there is no strong benefit from pooling, which there does not seem to be, I would not pool past 60, just for that off chance of t9 2-piece proccing and energy going to waste. It's true that the set bonus is not very big in percent terms compared to some we've seen before, but there is no reason to waste it either. Assuming 80% rupture uptime, 80%*2%*40/2 is 0.32 energy per second if not wasted. If a sinister strike hits for 3k on average and all that extra energy goes to sinister strikes, 2-piece set bonus is around 24 dps, or around 0.25% dps. If a portion of it goes to eviscerate, the benefit is going to be slightly higher.
So, it's sort of a risk versus reward computation. Pooling past 60 may mean you waste, say, 15 energy if T9 2/5 procs, and 15 energy, when you work it out, tends to be worth on the order of 3000 damage... but you only lose that 3000 damage 2% of the time, so your *expected* damage loss is only 60. So the question is: do you gain more or less than 60 damage by pooling? And depending on the exact timing, the answer - at least some of the time - is going to be yes.
08/19/09, 7:14 PM
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