Has anyone been able to confirm if the Direbrew dps trinket's internal cooldown is seperate from the mirror of truth's? Ran a daily today and I haven't seen both proc simultaneously or successively after the other.

The caster trinket applies the exact same buff as the badge one. If this is the case with the melee trinket, then they will share and internal cd like mirror and the wintergrasp trinket.

One thing to check is whether you are looking at expertise rating or expertise. To reduce the chance to be dodged by 6.5% you need 26 expertise, which equates to 214 expertise rating.

You need 26 expertise to avoid being dodged. You can still be parried at this rating, but only if you are attacking enemy targets from the front (enemies cannot parry attacks made from behind). In a raid setting there is inevitably going to be times when you are forced to attack your target from the front, but you should try to minimize these situations as much as possible and stay behind your target to maximize dps.

Also, 315 hit rating is considered the "cap" not merely because it's an acceptable number, but because that is the minimum rating that you need to ensure that your poisons will always land.

Hitting the expertise cap and poison hit cap are especially desirable for mutilate rogues, who rely on poisons to allow envenom, and expertise to ensure that envenom lands and refreshes slice and dice. Past these 2 caps though, Agility and AP provide a higher damage boost.

As mentioned above; 315 is only the cap if you don't have a spell hit debuff (impFF or Misery). If your target is debuffed with either of the above, your hit cap for poisons is 237.

Does Rupture scale with buffs (i.e. trinket procs, ability procs, zerking) or does it take your AP when you first apply it and then never change until your next application?

If it doesn't scale, is it worth it to refresh if say double zerker and Paragon + Greatness all proc at the same time?

I've been wondering this myself lately. I'd read elsewhere in another thread that the total damage of the entire rupture is calculated at application, similarly with deadly poison, but I'm unsure that a conclusion was reached. I'm more interested in how the damage is calculated for fights that have a predictable damage buff such as twin valks. Typically, provided SnD is up, I'll spam 5pt evisc for the duration of the 100% damage increase buff, but if a rupture applied at that time will tick for 100% more, it would definitely be wise to use rupture before the buff wore off.

Rupture (and to the best of my knowledge, all other dots) are calculated at the moment of application. That is to say, if you have a 50% increase damage buff, and you apply rupture, rupture wont start doing less damage if you loose the buff.

I can confirm this. Running with the Coaster and Mirror at the moment for a number of reasons. The proc does not appear any more than usual. If you really need a trinket pick this up but otherwise I don't consider the extra crit to be worth it.

Yes, your rupture does scale when you have trinket procs / berserking / damage % buffs. Also, each application of rupture only takes in account your current stats and will use those stats for the entire duration. If you try to reapply a rupture before the previous one drops, you will sometimes see the, "A more powerful spell exists" because you had more attack power when you applied the original rupture. This just means you will have to wait it to drop before you can rupture again.

okay I do not know if THIS belongs here right now,but since i saw the Sticky up there and the Empowered Deathbringer just dropped i thought i might share a little recount reports of me using it


So,seems like the proc itself is NOT on a CD since it procced 2 times in a row from the AutoAttack.
Data is from a lvl 83 target dummy and my Character is located on EU-Antonidas,if you want to take a look @ the gear i used in the test.

hopefully this is of help,I will get some sleep now.

Hi guys,
My character's name is Vashts on EU Doomhammer server. I have Spreadsheet question, I never had full t8 (I had 3 pieces) to begin with so I decided to use my emblems and get the 4 piece tier 9 bonus and plugged in my equipment into the spreadsheet (chest, shoulder, arms, legs) and got an estimated DPS of around 7048. The other day I was in VoA 25 man and the tier 8.5 legs dropped, now I have 4 pieces of tier 8 (head, chest, legs are 8.5, arms is 8). I was so happy so I decided to go back to the spreadsheet and plug in the 4 piece tier 8 set and was shocked to see a decrease to 6990 (and it's telling me to do a low rupture cycle). Now I am not willing to goto the trouble of gemming and enchanting my newly acquired 8.5 pants just to prove the spreadsheet wrong. Any insight on why the spreadsheet is telling me it's lower?

Things to take into consideration I am using two incorrect rings since my current rings are not on the list. Instead I am using the lowest ranked rings which is Band of Draconic Guile, and I am using the 3.22 Armor Penetration.

So manually edit the Gear sheet to enter your rings, and any other gear you're wearing that isn't "on the list". You can't get accurate results in the spreadsheet if you don't have the correct gear plugged in. Also, make sure you have the Rupture glyph and Rupture-related talents. Try as hard as you can to accurately simulate your current gearing and raiding situation, then see what the spreadsheet results are.

Quick question and update.

Well first what I tried, this is my character and it's current gear:

Tesfa - US Arthas

I tried in a ToC 10 to replace all agi gems with arpen and I tried one a Regular rotation SnD > Rupture > Evis
then I tried Rupture-less rotation, and then switched back to all agi gems and found that Arpen was < Agi ... that contradicts the stat weights.

Now my question is :

Is Arpen 2.24 in value once it's actually CAPPED at 100%. Or did I do something wrong?

After a few gear swaps over the past weeks I've found myself sitting at 213 expertise rating (mutilate spec). I've done some testing over the course of two weeks that possibly suggests that the expertise cap isn't a rigid 214. Unfortunately I've left my computer with the parses in Sweden and I'm in England for the next 4 months so I'll have to redo it to have some proof.

Anyway, 50,000 white hits at 213 expertise yielded 0 dodges. (and a hefty repair bill)

Testing was done on the Darnassus boss dummy and I was alone on it the entire time.

Now I'm wondering since I don't possess the math skills to work it out, what sort of number of hits am i looking at to prove with any significance that 213 expertise is at or above the expertise cap?

Anecdotal evidence of gem swapping in a single 10man raid is not going to give you anywhere near accurate results in comparing if Agi or ArP is better. Use the spreadsheets for that, that's what they're there for.

No, a DPS difference of 400 is trivial because your evidence is anecdotal. Consider that even if you could somehow guarantee that you had exactly the same buff uptime, debuff uptime, and fight circumstances, simple RNG can still cause your personal DPS to vary by around 200 DPS. Now consider that your warrior may not have gotten all the Sunders up as quickly each time, or your DK might have let Horn of Winter drop, or you might have outranged your shaman's totems, or you might have had to move more often to avoid fire or remove Paralytic poison, or your cooldowns didn't sync as well with Heroism/Bloodlust on a particular kill, or....so on and so forth. Each one of these things can easily swing your dps up or down by another 200, and probably even more than that. That's why we use simulators and spreadsheets to help with gearing decisions, because it's simply not possible to control the all the variables in real-world raid attempts.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. If you're really curious, I'm sure you could PM Aldriana and ask him just how many hundreds of controlled raid fights you would have to perform to even approach the level of accuracy of a spreadsheet, all things being equal.

So, the expertise cap is actually not 214 - it is, to be precise, 213.1349.... Which means that to actually cap - given that fractional expertise doesn't exist - you need to go all the way to 214, making that the cap. However, *most* of that last point is wasted - the 214th point is only about 13.5% as good as the 213th, meaning it's rarely worth taking if you have a choice in the matter. Which, of course, you usually don't.

In terms of testing this hypothesis: the expected dodge rate at 213 expertise is .0041% Thus, the expected number of dodges in 50k swings is 2.06. So 0 is certainly a bit unlikely, but not to the point of statistical significance - that would take at least at least 73k swings to get something outside the 95% confidence interval, and 112k to get something at a 99% confidence level.

I've always been a fan of Vigor back in the old HfB 3 stack days. But now that a ruptureless Mutilate rotation is sort of surfacing, well, there's no harm in replacing TotT glyph with Vigor glyph is there?

Well, Tricks of the Trade increases raid DPS and Glyph of Vigor doesn't. And there isn't really room in the standard builds for Vigor without losing DPS talents anyway. So I can't really recommend worrying about Vigor in most cases.

To my limited understanding Aldriana's latest mutilate beta spread sheet does not have a setting for the "rupture-less" build. From what I've garnered, this is the direction mutilate goes with higher levels of T9 gear. I'm uncertain on where the point of inflection is with out the spreadsheet to fall back on.

At what point do mutilate rogues know to drop rupture?

Additionally, in my experience, Vigor really only helps in extreme energy queuing scenarios (at of course for initial burst). When shifting from a complex rotation involving rupture to a much more simplistic one involving only envenom, energy queuing comes up much less often (only when waiting for weapon procs, the way I roll). Therefore, after that initial small burst increase you get, and maybe some rare energy capping avoidance, the talent and glyph provide no tangible benefit.

In the case of an Envenom-Only cycle, one gains two points from Blood Splatter. The two best(?) places to spend them are either Fleet Footed or Quick Recovery (and not worrying about exp), and I've heard exp is hard to avoid when approaching BiS gear, so Fleet Footed is probably the best bet. TotT is the suggested third glyph (replacing Rupture).