I'll agree with Rahdik's comment. If you need support for the addon, drop by the EJ IRC channel, #wowace on Freenode, or post on the Curse comments page. Let's re-rail this thread!

This problem was fixed in his newest build of the mod.

I have the latest version of the mod.

I just downloaded it today.

Actually, opticnerve was correct in guessing that 18/51/2 is the best spec for weapon swapping as combat. It beats 15/51/5 by a fair margin. The Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet is designed to answer these kinds of questions. It has an option to simulate single and double hand swapping in combat.

Also I am not aware of any theory that would favor HnS over CQC or mace spec for weapon swapping reasons. Current understanding is that HnS pulls ahead largely for itemization reasons. So basically you should go with whatever spec you have better weapons for.

This is a question regarding offhand poisons.

What amount of time on a target is needed for Deadly Poison to do more dps than Wound Poison? I know WP/WP is better for short burst fights (jaraxxus for portals, etc) but I was wondering for less clear encounters.

I had the same thing happen, but im guessing it is the way the addon works. IE; It wont swap weapons >60 energy, so if you had your IP OH weapon on and accidently got past 60 energy, your screwed. DP stacks fall off and you can't envenom.

Just my guess.

I agree this discussion on poisonswapper should have it's own thread to save this one getting derailed:
Comment on the addon anyway, had a short trial on a dummy.

It swaps to DP if <5 stacks, then lets the 5 stacks wear off before swapping again, ideally I'd want it to switch back say 1-2 seconds before DP wears off so you can re-apply and keep the 5 stacks going. 1 second would be fine for me, I'm thinking I can macro shiv to automatically shiv then switch back to my normal blade, I don't want to be wasting all that time getting back up to 5 stacks which is a dps loss, both from using a 2nd blade, and from not having 5 stacks running. However overriding the addon could get messy, maybe just having it auto-switch blade if time left on DP <2 seconds should work, unless you're very unlucky...think it'd be unlikely your 5 stacks would drop this way though, and you can just manually shiv if you think DP might not re-apply before the 2 seconds is up.

Sounds like they gonna nerf it anyway to make this not possible, and I aint sure I like the idea of this anyway tbh, don't like addons doing things like this for me, but I know I couldn't keep track of everything going on to do this manually without making mistakes but still a very well done addon...

Hello,

I have questions regarding Expose Armor. For the situations where a rogue with 18/51/2 spec should have EA in his rotation (normally in 10 mans without a warrior), is there any usefulness in getting Glyph of Expose Armor or Improved EA talent? In other words, would Glyph of EA beat Glyph of Evis, and is 10 energy per EA worth more dps than 2 other points in lower assassination?

Assuming the answer to that is yes, would it be better to favor 1 pt Exposes to get the most out of glyph/talent? If not, I'm guessing the optimal rotation to be 5pt SnD and EA when energy pooling allows (keeping them up no matter what), with eviscerate rest of the time?

Thanks in advance.

I think you are on the right track. If you have a second talent spec for running with out sunders, I would def consider the glyph and use EA in your rotation. What I am not sure of is putting 2 talent points to lower the energy cost. That would lower the energy cost to a tricks of the trade level of 15 energy, and using that every CD is not much of a dps loss. You would only be doing EA every 16-22 seconds if you used it with the lowest CP you have.

I've searched for this in the rogue threads so I apologize if this answer has been posted somewhere.

I'm just wondering why is it that in a Ruptureless Cycle, you drop Relentless Strikes to put 2 points in CDC and Lightning Reflexes? It seems Rupture doesn't have much to do with these two talents.

In a ruptureless cycle you're envenoming a lot more often, and assuming you are also using a poison swap macro/addon; the haste from lightning reflexes becomes much more valuable than relentless strikes.

Yeah you have to rely on others to put a bleed effect on, which has never been a problem in a 25 man raid. You can switch to ruptureless cycles when you drop t8.

"Once your gear is good enough to replace 4pc T8" is a pretty good reference point for when to go ruptureless. Mavanas' latest simsheet can tell you exactly which spec/rotation of the two will provide the highest theoretical dps, but if you're in ToC gear and are going to be poison swapping as you mentioned, then switching to a ruptureless cycle is probably a safe bet.

As for Hunger for Blood - in most raid environments there is almost always a warrior with deep wounds, a feral druid, or a marksman hunter to provide bleed debuffs. Opening with garrote ensures that a bleed is active on the target immediately as well.

In smaller environments where no such debuffs are present, you will probably have to incorporate some ruptures into your cycle if you want HfB active full time. For me personally this is really only an issue in 5 mans, where I prefer to play as combat spec anyways.

I just grabbed a couple daggers tonight, I've been combat since about, oh, sometime in MC, and haven't been a full time raider since Sunwell (I'm not raiding full time now either). I'm doing research on Ruptureless Muti, and the dropping Relentless for this spec interested me too.

For clarification, is the reason haste becomes more valuable due to the fact that the Envenom debuff will be up very close to 100% of the time and the extra poison procs are worth more than the 25 energy, despite the fact that you're using envenom so often? I'm hoping to understand the theory better since I'm not at all used to Muti.

That, plus the extra 2 points in CQC give some returns from FA.

Also remember that you don't drop full RS. you drop Opportunity and 3 points in RS.
This means you still have a 8% chance per CP to return 25 energy.

Are you sure about 2/5 relentless over 2/2 Opportunity? I was going off of the spec on the first page of this thread which showed using Opportunity. However, in doing a couple searches, i see people suggesting using 2/5 Relentless. Having not been anything but combat for a long time, I'm unsure of the split on white/yellow/poison damage I'm going to see and thus how much of an increase (or lack of increase) i'll see from having (or not having) Opportunity.

The extra energy you proc with Relentless increases your envenom buff uptime, the yellow damages are anecdotal.
I tried both specs on the PTR on the dummies (I know... :S) and I get almost the same numbers with both specs. What disturb me with the 51/13/7 is that when I'm waiting for the Envenom debuff to finish my energy is going really high ( ~65-70) before I can land an other Envenom without clipping. I fear that in raid conditions and with an higher energy regeneration rate we will cap energy while waiting for the envenom buff to wear off with a 51/13/7 spec.

Did anybody test that?


(Sorry for my english, I'm Swiss)

For the Rogue FAQ (recently updated), does it make sense to note that you might also spec combat if your raid is missing an arms warrior and has at least X% of raid members contributing primarily physical damage?

Here's for example, Opportunity would've netted me ~56281 damage, while RS returned 475 energy.

How much damage 475 energy would result is hard to quantify, however if all of it was spent on Mutilates (8.36...) it would've avg out to ~57208.
Since RS would also allow for a potential mutilate during the Envenom buff, there's extra benefit from IP as well, but I'm too lazy to account for that.

At least according to my napkin math.

Your energy probably gets distributed to more than mutilates. If spending it on mutilates only is already a dps increase, if you also allow it to be spent in part on envenoms, which have a lot higher DPE, it will be a clear winner. That's not even taking into account the extra IP application rate.

So either way you look at it, two points in relentless comes out ahead. Also I don't know why pocket guide would say otherwise since as far as I know, it has been like that before 3.2, meaning RS being ahead of opportunity in 51/18/2 spec.

I see Cally is updating the original post. The crit cap formula needs changed to:
Crit Cap = 100% - 24% glancing blows - X% dodge chance - X% miss chance
(remove the 4.8%).

This is according to the latest findings by Aldriana in this thread:
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t76785-c..._combat_table/

Question for Mavanas,

I'm a rogue with 9.25 4/5 and one 258 (Leggings of the Broken Beast) Mutilate Rogue who does weapon swapping. I've been a long time reader but this is my first time posting. This may not be so relevant as 3.3 is approaching soon but I'd like to ask anyway. I've been tinkering with your spreadsheets for a long time and I've done many iterations of 500-2000 to ensure I'm getting a good approximation of the numbers.

Now this is what I've found, it appears that a ruptureless cycle does improve my DPS with 51/13/7. However, when I test the #'s for 51/18/2, it appears the spec's DPS lags behind the previous one by about 100-200. So contrary to what has been posted and stated by various rogues, at least for me, it doesn't appear 51/18/2 is proving to be better then the original and I've seen the results replicated in game. I have mostly AGI gems equipped in my gear but that shouldn't matter since the specs should still be able to indicate a difference.

This will probably change in 3.3 with the new poison changes and I can definitely see 51/18/2 pull ahead. Any thoughts/comments?

Thank you for your time.

EDIT: Nevermind, 3.3 is upon us so my points are moot.