Can people please *stop* linking Shadowpanther to answer gear questions? It's already been linked quite a few times recently, and more importantly it's just plain inaccurate.

There's no hard-and-fast rule about weapon speeds right now. Yes, it's better to have faster weapons for Mutilate. If you want to know which weapon is better, instead of asking, check the spreadsheet.

It seems fairly accurate to me.

Assuming you're special Hit capped, its easier to look at Shadowpanthers List of weapons which show stats/speeds/EPs as compared to the spreadsheet.

Easier != better, or more accurate. Shadowpanther might give you a vague idea of what to look for, but the sheet is a much, much more accurate tool.

If nothing else, get some EP values from the sheet, plug them into LootRank, and bookmark it. Bam, your own Shadowpanther style gear comparison, custom tailored to your spec and gear (I'm fairly certain that their loot list is more complete as well, Shadowpanther is missing a few things).

One fast question concerning 7/51/13:

Is it possible to say that Fist MH + Sword OH is best in terms of dps for a combat 7/51/13 build? Assuming that you take 4/5 sword spec. You will have 5% crit on mh for sinister strike glyph to proc more often and your sword OH with proc extra attacks from MH.

Rogue: Simple Questions/Simple Answers

Also: check the spreadsheet. Try 7/51/13 with fist MH/sword OH and then try whatever the alternative spec is that you have in mind. Use whichever one makes a bigger number.

How much of a change can we expect to actually see from this? Would 1.8dp/1.3ip be the best combo possible?

Unless you perform more finishers than mutilates, you'll see more procs from the offhand than the main hand. Right now my ratio of mutilates to finishers is roughly 1.5:1, so I definitely get more procs from the oh than mh.

I'm not sure if 1.8/1.3 would be the best combo... it would if those are the speed daggers available to you. 1.3/1.3 is probably still better. The only thing that changed with this information is the relative frequency of procs from which hand.

Loot-link seems pretty terrible...not sure why people suggest it so much.

Some recent updates:

* Changed mutilate MH/OH weapon speed and poison preferences.
* Added a WWS and a HAT spec of a rogue seen pushing 6k on Patchwerk.

I would suggest getting your hands on 2: [Librarian's Paper Cutter] Ive had them drop down to .43 delay and with decent crit rate you'll be able to Mutilate more which out-weighs the high-end damage of slow speed daggers, unless of course it is marginally better. I grabbed 2 off the AH on my server for 250 each which I felt as more then a bargain.

Be very wary of how long you use the Paper Cutter(s), they are very quickly replaced by some naxx10 daggers, and almost any heroic 25 dagger.

Hmm, on my spreadsheet, it shows only [Murder] and [Webbed Death] being better for the offhand, even sinister revenge doesn't beat it. Murder is only marginally better, so I'm just going to wait until webbed death drops.

Sorry, wrong thread

My point being that the lower DPS of the weapons and the semi-horrid stats on the LPC drops the overall DPS of the weapon by a bit. Really, the only thing it has going for it is the speed, which really only goes so far. I think some people are forgetting that the the increase in poison procs needs to exceed everything else youre giving up to be beneficial.

Though the improvements/differences I am mentioning are very minor.

Take what you can now, as the way poisons work may change in the future, and you don't want to beat yourself up later for passing a best in slot, simply because its not as great at the moment.

Don't forget more focused attacks procs. There's also no chance of me passing best in slot, since that's webbed death and sinister revenge, and I'd pick up a second sinister revenge if it ever gets to the point that they'll be dised. Worse comes to worse you could always pick up the offhand emblem dagger if mechanics change radically such that two slow weapons would be optimal.

Their speed, dps, and relatively cheap price (~300g on my server) make them ideal for going into Naxx, and once some upgrades in there to get your hit/exp up, DW'ing them became ideal unless you've got a source for the crafted epic cheap enough to warrant it's imminent replacement.

Probably the same reason people still go to MaxDPS.

Did you plug in the appropriate AEP values? And also put 0's in for things such as Stamina?

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-p...p2/#post987453

This is from page 2 of this thread. I'm looking at lootrank (using the link provided in this guide) at two gloves which are identical except one is better in every single way, yet has a lower rating.

I'm not saying SP is good or better. To be honest I just use the spreadsheet.

I was wondering if there are any suggestions for the amount of hit I should be aiming for while just entering 25 mans at 80 and then what I should be aiming for when I'm geared.

From what I've seen so far, a lot of gear lacks hit, particularly 3 of the 5 T7 pieces. As I upgrade and replace tier 6, I'm finding it challenging to keep my hit at a decent level. A lot of my current hit comes from t6 I still have.

Right now I'm sitting at 308. I've been trying to stay as close to the poison cap as possible, but lately I've been considering not worrying about losing some because in a raid we always have a shadow priest for misery, etc. The white hit cap is obviously just about impossible to reach but I'm not worried about that, especially after reading threads here saying that getting near it is not as important now as it was in BC. Can't expect a lot of stats in the first tier of content anyway.

I've also gotten my expertise to a decent level to make sure I'm hitting as much as possible.

Any thoughts?

Your hit is already more than high enough. The poison cap is 232 in a raid with misery, and 210 with a draenei. Hit is worth less per point than crit/haste/etc once you're past that cap.

Either way you should be looking at the overall stats for an item instead of aiming for a certain value of hit. The only relevance the weightings have when "aiming" for a value is with gemming, and you should not gem for hit past 210 or 232.