Pocket Guide to WOTLK (Updated for 3.3) - Page 61

Syrek · 05/21/09, 9:32 AM

They are pretty much even. The (now) .1 faster speed on Rune-Etched makes up for the stat loss.
It might depend on the rest of your gear though, so you might want to take a look at Ald's Spreadsheet.
Void Sabre seems to be the BiS OH for swordspec now though.

impi · 05/21/09, 9:46 AM

Hey,
I'm mutilate-specced and I just got my 4/5 T8 few weeks ago. So I changed my specc from 51/13/7 to 51/7/13.
I tested a bit in Ulduar 10 and 25 and well, I can't see any big DPS-Difference. (at the test dummy as well)
In special fights where you can't hold Rupture it's even less DPS.
And in pure DPS fights like Ignis it's nearly the same DPS.

Does anyone have different experiences with this specc?

Maltese · 05/21/09, 10:00 AM

Are you gemming for agility or AP (agility becomes better than AP once you get 4-T8)? Feral druid/Arms warrior in the raid (Mangle/Trauma signifigant increase bleed damage)? The sheet has it pretty signifigantly higher for me to run with 13 in sublety.

Kumar · 05/21/09, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by innova

According to the spreadsheet with 4piece 8.5 and mostly BiS from T7 those swords are still behind CG/WD combo. This is unfortunate that itemization is so bad that 2xilvl 232 weapons are 20 dps behind the previous tier weapons. Should have checked the spreadsheet before wasting a little dkp.

*edit* It may not be poor itemization but that in combination with sword spec...seems that it is falling behind a bit.

With T8.5 4pc (Chest, Legs, Gloves, Head), Malice/Rune-etched is higher than CG/WD.

With T8.5 3pc (Legs, Gloves, Head + Reculse) Malice/Rune-etched is higher than CG/WD.

Results with Ald's spreadsheet.

innova · 05/21/09, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Kumar

With T8.5 4pc (Chest, Legs, Gloves, Head), Malice/Rune-etched is higher than CG/WD.

With T8.5 3pc (Legs, Gloves, Head + Reculse) Malice/Rune-etched is higher than CG/WD.

Results with Ald's spreadsheet.

Thanks for the input. I have Malice/Remorse, but it has been stated a few times that Remorse/Rune-etched are pretty much interchangeable. I will start a new sheet from scratch, maybe I botched mine some how. I was trying to justify 2X zerker enchants and was suprised to see my sheet show lower dps with the swords instead of CG/WD. I triple checked, but I'll start a new sheet and see.

impi · 05/21/09, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Maltese

Are you gemming for agility or AP (agility becomes better than AP once you get 4-T8)? Feral druid/Arms warrior in the raid (Mangle/Trauma signifigant increase bleed damage)? The sheet has it pretty signifigantly higher for me to run with 13 in sublety.

Sure, the sheet shows better results with 51/7/13 for me aswell (sad there is no updated Mutilate-sheet at the moment with more functions :/), that's why I ask for the practice.
Theoretically it might be more dps in a static fight, but what about the practice in Ulduar? Does anyone tested it already?

Echophantom · 05/21/09, 1:38 PM

Originally Posted by impi

Sure, the sheet shows better results with 51/7/13 for me aswell (sad there is no updated Mutilate-sheet at the moment with more functions :/), that's why I ask for the practice.
Theoretically it might be more dps in a static fight, but what about the practice in Ulduar? Does anyone tested it already?

I would assume that a fair portion of difference comes when you have Mangle/Trauma up on the target, which would not occur on a target dummy.

Smokescrêên · 05/21/09, 4:33 PM

I have been reading the forums here for months, and with recent patch changes to ArP (I understand they capped ArP at 100%), is ArP as valuable as it was before for a Combat Rogue? I believe Grim Toll and Mjolnir were best trinkets in game. Is this still true? And is the EP value of ArP the same as listed in the Pocket guide thread for 3.1? I'm wondering if with the cap, the Mirror of Truth might still be better than Grim Toll (due to extra poison dmg on procs and rupture dmg, etc), especially if you have no need of hit in any way. Please toss out some thoughts.

Istaril · 05/21/09, 4:45 PM

The short summary; ArP cap does affect ArP standings. Grim Toll + Mjolnir's is no longer as effective as before - for what trinkets you should use, consult a spreadsheet.

ArP is still the gem/gearing of choice for a combat rogue - unless I'm mistaken, even moreso for a mace-spec'd rogue, but the margin by which it is superior is much smaller than it was prior to the cap.

The ArP AP weightings are dynamic - they change significantly based on how much ArP you have already - to evaluate the possibility of focusing on ArP, use a spreadsheet.

Here's a good post illustrating the relative strength of gemming for ArP in BiS gear;

Lokje · 05/21/09, 5:44 PM

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I haven't seen it covered. I know ep is just a guildline, but would the ep value for the 4 piece bonus be the 2 piece + the 4 piece or simply the 4 piece. I.E. in order to have the 4 piece bonus one must also have the 2 piece bonus.

So, would the standalone 4 piece bonus of the t7 combat be 201, or 151?

Damntastic · 05/21/09, 7:56 PM

I See this forum sayng Mutilate is just as good as Combat, Still im seeing all rogues from top guilds (Ensidia) Combat specced...

Kaidagar · 05/21/09, 8:08 PM

Mutilate and combat are quite close on dps, Perhaps thier rogues enjoy being able to burn on demand which would certainly help in tight fights (especially while trying hard modes), thier rogues might also enjoy the playstyle of combat more.

Xaoc · 05/21/09, 8:12 PM

Playing devils advocate for a moment; just because you see 1 guild's rogues spec'd combat, that means it's the only viable spec?

You obviously can't spec mutilate without decent daggers. Its been a little over a month since Ulduar was released, which equates to 10 clears (25m and 10m runs). In that short of a time-frame, you can't expect that you'll see the top dagger drops for every top end guild. So, with that said, since there are earlier Combat weapons, a lot of rogues have chosen to go combat.

Jarlaxle · 05/22/09, 1:12 AM

Hello all.

I have a question about speccing 51/7/13

I have seen a few different variations with how to spend points deep in the assassination tree. I was wondering if someone could clear it up for me.

After looking through a few pages of threads and armorying plenty of people, I have seen a few variations.

Some people go with 3/3 Master Poisoner.

Some people go with 3/3 Turn the Tables.

And, some people go with 2/3 Master Poisoner with 1/3 Turn the Tables.

I have 4/5 T8 and enough hit rating to drop to 2/5 precision and still stay above poison cap (with misery/ff). From my damage charts, I can see the importance of rupture and understand why switching to 51/7/13 is important. In the past I have taken 3/3 Master Poisoner, but now I was wondering if that is not the route to go.

Thanks

Vamprillo · 05/22/09, 1:50 AM

Just try running the spreadsheet to see what combination works best for you. It has already been mentioned, but there seems to be diminishing returns on points spent into Master Poisoner, so some choose the 2/3 in MP and 1/3 in Turn the Tables. Also if your raid has no ret pally or shaman to drop a Wrath Totem, you would probably want to take Poisoner for the crit debuff.