Pocket Guide to WOTLK (Updated for 3.3) - Page 66

Caloboc · 06/03/09, 2:19 AM

I just recently acquired 4/5 t8 and have had a lot of success with 7/51/13 combat recently. I recommend adding it to the pocket guide for combat in the same way you did for mutilate.

• Aldriana · 06/03/09, 3:01 AM

We might, except all theorycraft indicates that it's not as good. Which is different than the situation with Mutilate.

Ashandir · 06/05/09, 11:59 PM

I had a question regarding the proper timing of an envenom in a Mut cycle. In the past, I got into the habit of letting my energy pool a bit after I had rupture up and 4+ cp, for more uptime on DP ticks before my next envenom. However, with the changes to MP, I'm thinking that's not as important as before.

I'm wondering if I would get better dps by getting off as many envenoms as I can while certain procs are up (Berserking, Darkmoon card) instead of letting my energy pool.

Leonoire · 06/06/09, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Ashandir

I had a question regarding the proper timing of an envenom in a Mut cycle. In the past, I got into the habit of letting my energy pool a bit after I had rupture up and 4+ cp, for more uptime on DP ticks before my next envenom. However, with the changes to MP, I'm thinking that's not as important as before.

I'm wondering if I would get better dps by getting off as many envenoms as I can while certain procs are up (Berserking, Darkmoon card) instead of letting my energy pool.

As far as i know, yes, you should be getting as many envenoms as possible between rupture without letting the buffs overlay, or energy capping yourself, or letting rupture fall off for long. But you should not attempt to time envenom chaining during procs, as your rotation could become very clunky. Let the procs happen and continue your rotation, you may want to time overkill or CB with them but your rotation and procs will inevitably overlap.

Infamous · 06/06/09, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Cally

Abstract
Professions

Only the best rogue professions are listed below. All other professions granting
less than 64 EP are not listed due to inferior DPS benefits.

Profession	EP
Jewelcrafting	110
Blacksmithing	64
Leatherworking	64
Enchanting	64
Inscription	64
Alchemy	64

Is this EP weight of Jewelcrafting still valid after the prismatic quality removal? Given the stat weights explained in this same thread Jewelcrafting grants 33 agility beyond other profession alternatives, with a 1.94 weight on agility. Giving an overall weight of 64.2 to JC's worth bringing it in line with all other professions.

• Aldriana · 06/07/09, 12:24 AM

Yes, when the prismatic nerf comes through, it will drop the value of jewelcrafting to something more reasonable - my count is 66 if you use AP gems, and somewhat more if there's a stat - as there is for both combat and mutilate at high gear levels - that's worth more than 2 EP.

Thus, two points here. Yes, eventually that number will need to be changed. But said nerf has not come through yet, and more than likely won't for several months - hence, for purposes of current itemization, it's correct as written. And second, even after the nerf, JC will still be (marginally) the best profession, followed by Blacksmithing, followed *extremely* closely by the others on that list.

Timujingeo · 06/07/09, 12:08 PM

Talking of 'other' professions, there used to be a very nice buff for herbalists namely fireleaf and fireseed which gave some excellent buffs, I.E. 400 ap for 10 secs or so.
Then Bliz in their infinite wisdom decided to nerf for no real reason.
Has anyone heard any news of a replacement buff for herbalists?

Grishmaluk · 06/08/09, 4:37 AM

I have found that especially with the t8 4set bonus 18/51/2 pulls ahead in DPS. One smart way to handle the lesser amount of energy is to simply discard Eviscerate and roll with a 5s/5r rotation, both simpler and better DPS-wise.

• Aldriana · 06/08/09, 4:41 AM

Do you have any evidence whatsoever to support that claim? Testing? Simulation? Spreadsheets? If so, could your provide them?

snowman2050 · 06/08/09, 6:15 AM

Originally Posted by Grishmaluk

I have found that especially with the t8 4set bonus 18/51/2 pulls ahead in DPS. One smart way to handle the lesser amount of energy is to simply discard Eviscerate and roll with a 5s/5r rotation, both simpler and better DPS-wise.

If this is infact the case would it not be more optimal to run a 2s/5r rotation?

Furazoio · 06/08/09, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by Cally

Stat	Combat EP	Mut EP	HAT EP
AP	1	1	1
Agi	1.94	1.97	1.99
Crit	1.54	1.58	1.49
Exp	1.52	1.88	2.02
Haste	1.46	1.41	1.50
ArPen	1.83	1.34	1.54
White Hit	1.28	1.20
Poison Hit	1.68	1.84	1.60
Yellow Hit	1.92	2.52
MH DPS	6.53	4.16
OH DPS	2.61	2.91
Meta	155.02	118.13

I´ve been testing combat sword build and i got different numbers for EP hit yellow, poison, white and haste.
I guess these values was calculated upon combat fist/daggers spec where specialization gives 5% critical rating, but combat sword specialization gives you 5% change to got a free hit when you got a sucessfully melee target.

My numbers are: Yellow hit - 2.11; Poison Hit - 2.03; White Hit - 1.82; Haste - 1.54

Can someone else confirm this numbers?

doomtop · 06/08/09, 9:26 AM

Originally Posted by Grishmaluk

I have found that especially with the t8 4set bonus 18/51/2 pulls ahead in DPS. One smart way to handle the lesser amount of energy is to simply discard Eviscerate and roll with a 5s/5r rotation, both simpler and better DPS-wise.

I'm not sure I understand how this would be efficient? A 5pt rupture will last much longer than it takes to get another 5pts.

Maltese · 06/08/09, 9:41 AM

Originally Posted by Furazoio

I´ve been testing combat sword build and i got different numbers for EP hit yellow, poison, white and haste.
I guess these values was calculated upon combat fist/daggers spec where specialization gives 5% critical rating, but combat sword specialization gives you 5% change to got a free hit when you got a sucessfully melee target.

My numbers are: Yellow hit - 2.11; Poison Hit - 2.03; White Hit - 1.82; Haste - 1.54

Can someone else confirm this numbers?

Everyones EP numbers will be different because everyone typically has different gear. EP values are not constant and anyone posting them is typically just using them as a rough guide. If you want exact numbers you'll need to use the values provided by the spreadsheet and use those in Pawn.

Furazoio · 06/08/09, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Maltese

Everyones EP numbers will be different because everyone typically has different gear. EP values are not constant and anyone posting them is typically just using them as a rough guide. If you want exact numbers you'll need to use the values provided by the spreadsheet and use those in Pawn.

Of course gear will change a bit EP numbers, but i am not talking about gear. I am talking about rogue mechanics that has a huge difference between daggers build and sword build as much as combat daggers are different from multilate.

Maltese · 06/08/09, 10:47 AM

Which is why you see different columns for combat, mutilate and HaT. The "prevalent" spec for combat rogues has been fists because of itemization reason, which is why you are seeing a difference in EP numbers for combat swords. Honestly the difference isn't as huge between the different combat spec as a difference from mutilate and combat daggers, its just a minor shift in the importance of hit and expertise in sword spec because of the extra strikes.