I went out and tried the HaT spec in our naxx25 tonight and i've no idea how the rogue in the wws pushed 6k on patchwerk.
First of all it is _REALLY_ group dependant... if you can't do 4-5cp evis all the time your dps will be terrible, well atleast mine was. I noticed he got TTT 13 times which i didn't have access to due to being the only rogue in the raid and i probably missed a few shadowsteps but that's about it. I'd be really interested to know what kind of group he's running for himself cause i noticed i needed to help in cp's a lot and he used 3 hemo's in the whole fight.
Would appreciate if other rogues would post their experiences with this build and what kind of group they've noticed to be most effective.
Well the best group set-up for generating CPs would be groups that attack fast and have a high crit rating; not groups that have the highest crit percentage. For example having a rogue grouped with a mage and/or elemental shaman, who both have high crit ratings, would actually be counter productive since they have long periods between attacks.
The best group set-up in my eyes would be a BM Hunter, Feral Druid (cat), and 3 rogues. The hunter, because they have a high crit rating and fast attacks, in addition to having a fast attacking pet that can also trigger HaT. Another good option would be an Enhancement Shaman, or even an Affliction Warlock (now that their DoTs can crit).
Well the best group set-up for generating CPs would be groups that attack fast and have a high crit rating; not groups that have the highest crit percentage. For example having a rogue grouped with a mage and/or elemental shaman, who both have high crit ratings, would actually be counter productive since they have long periods between attacks.
The best group set-up in my eyes would be a BM Hunter, Feral Druid (cat), and 3 rogues. The hunter, because they have a high crit rating and fast attacks, in addition to having a fast attacking pet that can also trigger HaT. Another good option would be an Enhancement Shaman, or even an Affliction Warlock (now that their DoTs can crit).
It is from abilities only so all those listed are actually quite terribly. Im thinking more like mages,retadins(?),elemental shamans(?)
I know you say beserking is good enchant, but I have it and it only procs maybe once or twice a fight. I was wondering if anyone thought mongoose is still better. I am mutilate so the crit would be nice for me.
I keep seeing ppl post about checking gear/weapons in the spreadsheet...
but the only spreadsheet i seem to find is just for entering stats, combo rotation, and talent pts. Can someone either plz link to the gear one, or send me a message with the link? thanks in advance
WWS link to tonights Naxx25 raid. I just spec'd for HAT literally 5 minutes prior to being summoned in for Patchwerk. I had no clue as to what I should do other than try to keep up SnD/Rupture and Evis with 5CP as often as possible, filling in luls in CP generation with an occasional hemo. Basically just posting this so people who understand the math/theory involved can dissect if needed. Hopefully we can come up with more ideal specs/rotations etc.
Oh..my group comp was 2 BM hunters, 1 Marks hunter, and another HAT spec'd rogue. Our guild is only in Naxx25 for the 3rd night so our gear is a but underwhelming and I'm sure these numbers will improve in the coming weeks.
In an update by the author it is suggested for mutilate that you put your instant poison on your offhand and deadly on mainhand... I tried this and my dps actually went down.
You can double proc instant psn on mutilate but you offhand is more prone to dodges and misses which is not ideal during envenoms, (i also noticed that in many of the examples on the discussion of this topic envenom wasnt being used in the testing)
Wondering if anyone has tried this new method with the same amount of failure I've had with it.
I'm looking to gem/enchant my gear the best way i can and i'm also screwing around with a spreadsheet and in this guide it says AP/Agi are equal ( i know this guide is a rough draft) but according to my spreadhsheet no matter what talents or buffs i have pure AP (bright) is always superior dps than pure Agi(delicate). just looking for a little input and if i can trust this spreadsheet to gem everything pure AP.
You can double proc instant psn on mutilate but you offhand is more prone to dodges and misses which is not ideal during envenoms, (i also noticed that in many of the examples on the discussion of this topic envenom wasnt being used in the testing)
Your offhand has the same chance to hit/dodge/parry, whatever as your main hand. The dual wield penalty is simply 25% less dmg on the white hits from the offhand.
Also, the testing didn't use envenom because it was simply to determine if mutilate has a chance to proc two poisons on the oh. Whether or not more or less dps is observed depends on way too many variables to show in the field, especially since the difference should be so marginal.
Any perceived loss in dps is likely due to other factors. It's not like we noticed that switching hands will affect your dps by 500 or something easily noticeable, it's more along the lines of 30 more likely, which is will within variance on any given fight.
In an update by the author it is suggested for mutilate that you put your instant poison on your offhand and deadly on mainhand... I tried this and my dps actually went down.
You can double proc instant psn on mutilate but you offhand is more prone to dodges and misses which is not ideal during envenoms, (i also noticed that in many of the examples on the discussion of this topic envenom wasnt being used in the testing)
Wondering if anyone has tried this new method with the same amount of failure I've had with it.
Your offhand is not prone to being dodged or missed more, that is completely down to imagination. Both offhand and mainhand share the same miss penalty through dual wield and the chance a boss can dodge is standard for all attacks bar shiv.
Provided you have the faster of your weapons in the offhand slot with instant poison it will benefit from double proccing mutilate. Aside from that I can only assume you didn't read the author's post correctly.
WWS link to tonights Naxx25 raid. I just spec'd for HAT literally 5 minutes prior to being summoned in for Patchwerk. I had no clue as to what I should do other than try to keep up SnD/Rupture and Evis with 5CP as often as possible, filling in luls in CP generation with an occasional hemo. Basically just posting this so people who understand the math/theory involved can dissect if needed. Hopefully we can come up with more ideal specs/rotations etc.
Oh..my group comp was 2 BM hunters, 1 Marks hunter, and another HAT spec'd rogue. Our guild is only in Naxx25 for the 3rd night so our gear is a but underwhelming and I'm sure these numbers will improve in the coming weeks.
Looks pretty good. I think i gave up on the spec a tad too soon and should try stacking hunters in the group. Also there is some discussion in the other thread about HAT bugging when you have another HAT rogue in the group which basically doubles the cp generation or something. You used hemo 3 times so im guessing you were using a lot of energy/gained points really fast which wasn't the case for me at all
WWS link to tonights Naxx25 raid. I just spec'd for HAT literally 5 minutes prior to being summoned in for Patchwerk. I had no clue as to what I should do other than try to keep up SnD/Rupture and Evis with 5CP as often as possible, filling in luls in CP generation with an occasional hemo. Basically just posting this so people who understand the math/theory involved can dissect if needed. Hopefully we can come up with more ideal specs/rotations etc.
Oh..my group comp was 2 BM hunters, 1 Marks hunter, and another HAT spec'd rogue. Our guild is only in Naxx25 for the 3rd night so our gear is a but underwhelming and I'm sure these numbers will improve in the coming weeks.
Were you getting 2 CPs for every crit or just one?
Were you getting 2 CPs for every crit or just one?
Talking with a Rogue I know on my server who was running a group of 3 HAT Rogues and 2 Hunters. For every crit the other HAT Rogues got, he received 3 CPs. His WWS was posted in the HAT thread. 6.1k DPS on Patchwerk
About Paxs question, gemming with agility is more ideal especially in a raid environment because the agility will scale with buffs like kings, giving you around or more ap and at the same time more crit.
About Paxs question, gemming with agility is more ideal especially in a raid environment because the agility will scale with buffs like kings, giving you around or more ap and at the same time more crit.
AP Scales with Trueshot/Abom's Might/etc.. and it also scales with the Combat talent (4%) if you're combat.
About Paxs question, gemming with agility is more ideal especially in a raid environment because the agility will scale with buffs like kings, giving you around or more ap and at the same time more crit.
I dont think you can get more AP from Agility than gemming for straight AP.
Hey guys, I wanna see what you all think about the following spec because I have not seen a single rogue spec'd this way. However, I did hear about a few rogues out there doing 5-6k dps (taken from wow webstats) without even all lvl 80 gear with this spec.
I don't know the exact point distribution, but it involves Honor Among Thieves, from the Sub tree. If you read the talent, you basically get a CP every time someone in your groups crits. The talent also says that it can't occur once per second, but what I've heard is what that means is one per second PER PERSON. If that's the case, with a stacked group you could probably get 5 cp's every 2 seconds, and could therefore spam Eviscerate that often. Then stacking solely crit and ap would easily bring someone up to 5-6k dps.
If this has been posted on EJ before, then I apologize for reposting it, but so far I haven't seen any discussion about it. And if there hasn't been any, then I think there needs to, as this *may* prove to be an op talent.
Edit: Ok, I didn't search HAT lol, which is why I didn't get too many results. Just noticed now that there's even a post about it above mine.
I don't know the exact point distribution, but it involves Honor Among Thieves, from the Sub tree.
...snip...
If this has been posted on EJ before, then I apologize for reposting it, but so far I haven't seen any discussion about it. And if there hasn't been any, then I think there needs to, as this *may* prove to be an op talent.
I included all the buffs and talents that would benefit agility stats (kings/ and took off all talents/buffs that benefited AP(savage combat/abom/) and my dps still lower w/ pure agility gemmin than pure AP.
I also was told that agi is more ideal b/c of the crit and faster and tighter rotations. he was mutilate so i assume he was talking about focused attacks and seal fate. But the spreadhseet i'm using included these factors and my dps still went down when gemming pure agility.
I included all the buffs and talents that would benefit agility stats (kings/ and took off all talents/buffs that benefited AP(savage combat/abom/) and my dps still lower w/ pure agility gemmin than pure AP.
I also was told that agi is more ideal b/c of the crit and faster and tighter rotations. he was mutilate so i assume he was talking about focused attacks and seal fate. But the spreadhseet i'm using included these factors and my dps still went down when gemming pure agility.
AP affects every single attack.
Agility gives half as much AP, and the Crit from Agility(which is different from just Crit, only affects melee crit, not spellcrit) doesnt affect things like Deadly Poison, Rupture. Which make up a decent chunk of your DPS.
Looking for some help with dagger selection for HfB Mut. I dont have access to excel so cant just plug em in.
I have 2x LPC, the epic Rolfsen from badges, and blue Dagger of Betrayel(1.8speed).
Im currently using my 2x LPC and im pretty sure that its better in offhand then my epic 1.7 speed. But what about mainhand? I feel like the 1.8 speed would be better as I have deadly at a full stack most of the time either way really. Does the slight difference in DP up time and more energy from faster hits and more crits out-weigh the higher muts?
Mutilate dagger speeds and poisons changed due to recent evidence that Mutilate has two chances
to proc the offhand poison. It is now more preferable to put the faster weapon in the offhand with IP.
Just a quick question on this. the spreadsheet still says that MH omen (instant) OH incision (deadly) is about 40dps better than the reverse. Could this be because of my current gear level?
12/04/08, 3:58 PM
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