The spreadsheet does not take into account the Double-Proc of your Offhand poison.

You can read Chalon's post here to see how to hack the spreadsheet to factor it in.

Cheers. Seems [Lightblade Rivener] is better in the OH now, with omen in MH.

Last time i checked Vulajin's sheet at The Roguecraft Spreadsheet was 100% OpenOffice compatible which can be downloaded legally for free at www: OpenOffice.org - The Free and Open Productivity Suite

This concerns combat gemming when above poison hit cap, but below the hard hit cap:

I'm just wondering why you would use [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] or [Bright Scarlet Ruby] when you could use a [Glinting Monarch Topaz], [Deadly Monarch Topaz], or [Wicked Monarch Topaz] because they give you more dps?

On what basis are you assuming the latter gems would give more DPS? I don't know about your gear set but whether I'm Combat or Mut; AP tends to be the stat to stack assuming I have enough expertise. This assumption is based on the spreadsheet, which you should be using to make these decisions. If you're not using the spreadsheet, where is your evidence showing these gems to be superior?

I'm not sure where I was getting it from on my spreadsheet, but it was probably before I fully configured it to my spec and settings. Disregard my post, sorry.

Using Cold Blood with make both hands crit when you use mutilate, thats pretty much what I use it on since I get ~3.2k crit with each hand when in a raid (10 man).

My envenom crits sometimes creep into the 7k bracket but seems to depend which classes are present (ie what debuffs are on the mob and if they increase spell dmg taken)

The DPS difference is minimal considering Cold Blood's long cooldown. I'd encourage you to use it instead to maintain cycle stability - it guarantees an extra CP on mutilate, which is handy if ruthlessness fails to proc when you want it to - or to increase the burst threat of a ToT to your tank.

Personally, just for fun and to keep up with the hunters, I'll save Cold Blood and pair it with Fan of Knives on trash Won't leave a bruise and it'll let 'em know who's boss...there's NOOOO doubt about it

Updated hit cap table due to evidence that the specials hit cap is reduced from 9% to 8%.

I might need to reconsider this since getting Sinister Revenge last night, but my envenoms can crit for upwards of 10k, and my mutilates hit extremely weakly, since I had been using Webbed Death MH with Librarian's Paper Cutter OH. With Sinister Revenge, that may change upward. I haven't really been having that much difficulty maintaining a cycle with or without ruthlesness procs, and since Mutilate has +15% chance to crit anyway (bringing it to >=~50% chance raidbuffed, or 75% chance for one of two hands to proc on the attack, granting me 3CP anyway), it might not be 'that' necessary.

Again though, that may well change once I get 4pc Bonescythe and/or lose my Slayer's bonus, as well as having fewer 'crits per second" with Sinister Revenge rather than the paper-cutter.

On another note, even with the 1.3 offhand and a 1.4 mainhand, I tended to find myself "poison-starved" occasionally when it came to envenom while using Deadly on my main-hand and instant on my offhand, at least for the purposes of Envenom. Might well be worth looking into further, but with Deadly on a 1.8 mainhand, I can anticipate those issues being worse yet.

Mostly because of what I stated earlier in the post- I view as the doubleproc offhand logic having been already accounted for in practice when "logic-checking" the spreadsheet, and am wary of deadly poison uptime with it on the mainhand.

I'll give SR mainhand a spin during tonight's raid with deadly though, just to compare.

edit: misread post or something

All I would say is I'd expect some compensation on DP procs by the fact that you can proc it off your finishers at least.

Yeah, I hear you. My current thought, though, is that when we're talking about an 11DPS delta out of a nominal 4300, any "cycle unreliability" will hit harder than the theoretical DPS gain in swapping hands/poisons.

Sorry if that has been posted already, but the HaT spec of the first post advices taking Shadowstep (instead of 2/2 Blood Splatter).
Isn't Shadowstep considered being not viable? Maybe a more adequate spec would be something like this.

Regarding to hit-expertise issue i'd like to ask a simple question.

In WOTLK guides it says that expertise and hit are the same stats. So let's say i got X much of hit and Y expertise. Also it's been assumed that cap is 755.

So is it okay to say that i have X+Y amount of hit ?

Thanks in advance.

I believe it's kind of subjective. Shadowstep allows you to get back to the boss faster and that might be worth more to people.
Also some are finding straight Eviscerate spam yields more damage than Eviscerate + Rupture but there has been no extensive testing.

In fact in alot of situation Shs is really a nice option to get back on the mob you want to as fast as you can because of the crazy CP generation ( Sartharion, Malygos, lots of naxx fights, etc ..). That with the fact that eviscerate spam seams as viable as maintaining rupture on a boss, Shs is not so bad.

You know, with the almost complete lack of hit on the new gear I am right now floating just above the yellow cap. If I drop below it, the spreadsheet shows +hit practically as good as pure AP and better than everything else... (7/51/13 build)
So something to keep an eye on. (my gear is still evolving, maybe I am just in a +hit hole)

Glyph of Rupture.

Has anyone else found themself somewhat disappointed in this glyph? I really like it for the purposes of trash where a 2 or 3CP rupture might well last until the death of the trash mob, thereby adding my 300DPS or whatever to the mob if tanked by a feral.

On bosses, though, it as well seems to cause some cycle instability in that, due to oddities with "spell rank/duration" mechanics, you can't refresh a 5CP rupture with 3 seconds remaining with a 4CP Ruptuer (lasting 19 seconds), forcing one to wait on the duration to drop (wasting energy or refreshing HfB, which may well be the optimal time to do so), burn the CPs with an envenom and lose Rupture uptime (still worth more than envenom DPS, per the spreadsheet, ignoring the bonus to instant poison from the envenom buff being up) or mutilating again and wasting, at minimum, 1CP?

Has anyone else experienced this issue, and if so, which of the above choices do you go with (I'm assuming refreshing HfB if lower than like 15 seconds is probably optimal among the choices listed, though refreshing it at 15 seconds would rarely be my preference)?

Also, re: Sinister Revenge or Webbed Death as mainhand... the jury's still out. I tried out SR in the mainhand last night, but rarely got an opportunity to use it to full advantage as I was only in for Gluth, Loatheb, and a painful night of Thaddius attempts (a boss who we one-shot last week). Key feature of both Gluth and Loatheb is that every so often, you'll be running away from the boss to do something else, during which time your deadly poison stack might drop and if your mutilate doesn't refresh it, your envenom might not be usable.

I'll have to mess around with it a bit more.

I am having cycle nightmares with the rupture glyph to be honest. I tried to go back to a simply slice/rupture cycle with it using as short a slice combo point generator as possible (dropping the slice glyph along the way since it seemed pretty unnecessary) and things are messy as all get out. Sometimes it seems like 2s/5r is sustainable, sometimes it seems like 3s/5r is not sustainable. I don't have a good mod to watch the slice timer in the middle of the screen (any thoughts?), but regardless, once forced to refresh slice oddly with some arbitrary number of combo points, rupture uptime goes way, way down.

And this seems to vary from fight to fight in Naxx. I should note I'm doing this with combat, so the problem is not limited to mutilate.

I use ClassTimers, I know some others use NeedToKnow. As for your cycles, even when at the 5r part, you can throw in more SS to burn energy while waiting for Rupture to finish.