Pocket Guide to WOTLK (Updated for 3.3) - Page 91

Grawknar · 09/20/09, 7:09 PM

Has anyone been able to confirm if the Direbrew dps trinket's internal cooldown is seperate from the mirror of truth's? Ran a daily today and I haven't seen both proc simultaneously or successively after the other.

Valyrra · 09/20/09, 7:53 PM

Originally Posted by Grawknar

Has anyone been able to confirm if the Direbrew dps trinket's internal cooldown is seperate from the mirror of truth's? Ran a daily today and I haven't seen both proc simultaneously or successively after the other.

The caster trinket applies the exact same buff as the badge one. If this is the case with the melee trinket, then they will share and internal cd like mirror and the wintergrasp trinket.

Jeppathum · 09/21/09, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Ovad

Expertise Cap = 26 ? Im currently at 42 and still getting parried about %3 of the time on regular melee Im sure i wont be dodge or parried at %11 . Is the 26 exp cap suggesting i take even more dodged and parried melee attacks ?

So if I dropped that expertise to 26 i see about a %6 parry on a boss.
Is this an acceptable loss and would i then stack attack power or agility instead to improve overall dps.

One thing to check is whether you are looking at expertise rating or expertise. To reduce the chance to be dodged by 6.5% you need 26 expertise, which equates to 214 expertise rating.

greenjello · 09/21/09, 5:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ovad

Ive been doing alot of reading here and elsewhere and Im trying to clarify what i need to get maximum dps as mutiliate. I need to understand the acceptable losses vrs possible gains.

first assuming no additonal raids buffs
Hit Cap = 315 or %10 , acceptable loss , your regular melee attacks will miss approx %10 of the time on bosses since reaching the 700 plus cap is not feasable I understand that and made adjustments to get closer to 315.

Expertise Cap = 26 ? Im currently at 42 and still getting parried about %3 of the time on regular melee Im sure i wont be dodge or parried at %11 . Is the 26 exp cap suggesting i take even more dodged and parried melee attacks ?

So if I dropped that expertise to 26 i see about a %6 parry on a boss.
Is this an acceptable loss and would i then stack attack power or agility instead to improve overall dps.

Help me understand if this Loss\Gains info is correct

Thanks

Correction: I tested again and 26 exp shouldhave no dodges or parries on reg melee but i will miss %10 of the time . Is that about right ?

You need 26 expertise to avoid being dodged. You can still be parried at this rating, but only if you are attacking enemy targets from the front (enemies cannot parry attacks made from behind). In a raid setting there is inevitably going to be times when you are forced to attack your target from the front, but you should try to minimize these situations as much as possible and stay behind your target to maximize dps.

Also, 315 hit rating is considered the "cap" not merely because it's an acceptable number, but because that is the minimum rating that you need to ensure that your poisons will always land.

Hitting the expertise cap and poison hit cap are especially desirable for mutilate rogues, who rely on poisons to allow envenom, and expertise to ensure that envenom lands and refreshes slice and dice. Past these 2 caps though, Agility and AP provide a higher damage boost.

Istaril · 09/21/09, 8:12 PM

Originally Posted by greenjello

Also, 315 hit rating is considered the "cap" not merely because it's an acceptable number, but because that is the minimum rating that you need to ensure that your poisons will always land.

As mentioned above; 315 is only the cap if you don't have a spell hit debuff (impFF or Misery). If your target is debuffed with either of the above, your hit cap for poisons is 237.

Rahdik · 09/21/09, 9:43 PM

Does Rupture scale with buffs (i.e. trinket procs, ability procs, zerking) or does it take your AP when you first apply it and then never change until your next application?

If it doesn't scale, is it worth it to refresh if say double zerker and Paragon + Greatness all proc at the same time?

forphium · 09/22/09, 12:12 AM

it doesn't scale, and the answer to your second question is largely dependant on the amount of uptime you're losing and/or energy waste. If the first value is too high* or the second non-zero, it is most likely not worth doing.

*determination of the threshold for this value is hard; with 4pc t8 it is probably quite small, however.

Roffle · 09/22/09, 4:29 AM

Originally Posted by Rahdik

Does Rupture scale with buffs (i.e. trinket procs, ability procs, zerking) or does it take your AP when you first apply it and then never change until your next application?

If it doesn't scale, is it worth it to refresh if say double zerker and Paragon + Greatness all proc at the same time?

I've been wondering this myself lately. I'd read elsewhere in another thread that the total damage of the entire rupture is calculated at application, similarly with deadly poison, but I'm unsure that a conclusion was reached. I'm more interested in how the damage is calculated for fights that have a predictable damage buff such as twin valks. Typically, provided SnD is up, I'll spam 5pt evisc for the duration of the 100% damage increase buff, but if a rupture applied at that time will tick for 100% more, it would definitely be wise to use rupture before the buff wore off.

Palanuial · 09/22/09, 10:56 AM

Rupture (and to the best of my knowledge, all other dots) are calculated at the moment of application. That is to say, if you have a 50% increase damage buff, and you apply rupture, rupture wont start doing less damage if you loose the buff.

Xynen · 09/24/09, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by Valyrra

The caster trinket applies the exact same buff as the badge one. If this is the case with the melee trinket, then they will share and internal cd like mirror and the wintergrasp trinket.

I can confirm this. Running with the Coaster and Mirror at the moment for a number of reasons. The proc does not appear any more than usual. If you really need a trinket pick this up but otherwise I don't consider the extra crit to be worth it.

kml · 09/25/09, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by Rahdik

Does Rupture scale with buffs (i.e. trinket procs, ability procs, zerking) or does it take your AP when you first apply it and then never change until your next application?

Yes, your rupture does scale when you have trinket procs / berserking / damage % buffs. Also, each application of rupture only takes in account your current stats and will use those stats for the entire duration. If you try to reapply a rupture before the previous one drops, you will sometimes see the, "A more powerful spell exists" because you had more attack power when you applied the original rupture. This just means you will have to wait it to drop before you can rupture again.

Fedaykyn · 09/25/09, 10:25 PM

okay I do not know if THIS belongs here right now,but since i saw the Sticky up there and the Empowered Deathbringer just dropped i thought i might share a little recount reports of me using it

So,seems like the proc itself is NOT on a CD since it procced 2 times in a row from the AutoAttack.
Data is from a lvl 83 target dummy and my Character is located on EU-Antonidas,if you want to take a look @ the gear i used in the test.

hopefully this is of help,I will get some sleep now.

Gify · 09/26/09, 4:54 PM

Originally Posted by Grawknar

Has anyone been able to confirm if the Direbrew dps trinket's internal cooldown is seperate from the mirror of truth's? Ran a daily today and I haven't seen both proc simultaneously or successively after the other.

I can confirm this as well.

When having the 4 piece t8 will rupture also take crit based buffs into affect such as Mirror of Truth?

yukon · 09/30/09, 11:33 AM

Hi guys,
My character's name is Vashts on EU Doomhammer server. I have Spreadsheet question, I never had full t8 (I had 3 pieces) to begin with so I decided to use my emblems and get the 4 piece tier 9 bonus and plugged in my equipment into the spreadsheet (chest, shoulder, arms, legs) and got an estimated DPS of around 7048. The other day I was in VoA 25 man and the tier 8.5 legs dropped, now I have 4 pieces of tier 8 (head, chest, legs are 8.5, arms is 8). I was so happy so I decided to go back to the spreadsheet and plug in the 4 piece tier 8 set and was shocked to see a decrease to 6990 (and it's telling me to do a low rupture cycle). Now I am not willing to goto the trouble of gemming and enchanting my newly acquired 8.5 pants just to prove the spreadsheet wrong. Any insight on why the spreadsheet is telling me it's lower?

Things to take into consideration I am using two incorrect rings since my current rings are not on the list. Instead I am using the lowest ranked rings which is Band of Draconic Guile, and I am using the 3.22 Armor Penetration.

Naeramarth · 09/30/09, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by yukon

Hi guys,
My character's name is Vashts on EU Doomhammer server. I have Spreadsheet question, I never had full t8 (I had 3 pieces) to begin with so I decided to use my emblems and get the 4 piece tier 9 bonus and plugged in my equipment into the spreadsheet (chest, shoulder, arms, legs) and got an estimated DPS of around 7048. The other day I was in VoA 25 man and the tier 8.5 legs dropped, now I have 4 pieces of tier 8 (head, chest, legs are 8.5, arms is 8). I was so happy so I decided to go back to the spreadsheet and plug in the 4 piece tier 8 set and was shocked to see a decrease to 6990 (and it's telling me to do a low rupture cycle). Now I am not willing to goto the trouble of gemming and enchanting my newly acquired 8.5 pants just to prove the spreadsheet wrong. Any insight on why the spreadsheet is telling me it's lower?

Things to take into consideration I am using two incorrect rings since my current rings are not on the list. Instead I am using the lowest ranked rings which is Band of Draconic Guile, and I am using the 3.22 Armor Penetration.

So manually edit the Gear sheet to enter your rings, and any other gear you're wearing that isn't "on the list". You can't get accurate results in the spreadsheet if you don't have the correct gear plugged in. Also, make sure you have the Rupture glyph and Rupture-related talents. Try as hard as you can to accurately simulate your current gearing and raiding situation, then see what the spreadsheet results are.