No one thought Berserking had an internal cooldown. It has always appeared to work very much like Mongoose, which also doesn't have an internal cooldown.
Buggy rogue mechanics:
Cloak of shadows does not always remove all existing harmful spells
waylay does not always work
waylay does not always proc instantly
enveloping shadows does not reduce all aoe damage
cheat death does not always restore 10% health
cheat death is not always activated with 3/3 talent points
Vanish is broken sometimes back to back, who cares if blizz cant reproduce it.
It does matter if they can't reproduce it, as it can be extremely hard if not impossible to diagnose, fix and then regress a bug that no-one knows how to reproduce.
I believe they've acknowledged it exists - they're not claiming it works perfectly. But if you don't know how exactly to break it, you can only guess at how to fix it. You've then got a fallback or speculative fix which you can't test properly because you aren't sure as to how to recreate the problem. It's an example of the scale of WoW - most games ship with small, hard/impossible to repro bugs which are simply not seen by the vast majority of people. In WoW, every little possibility happens and because of the community, tends to get documented for all to see.
In regards to Vanish, we do believe that there may still be some bugs with it, but we are having trouble replicating those bugs in in order to get to the core of the issue. Whenever we try, Vanish simply works perfectly.
23:23:07> Your Melee hit Expert's Training Dummy 1 Physical. (2343 Overkill) (Critical)
23:23:07> Your Stealth applied You.
23:23:07> Your Vanish applied You.
23:23:07> You cast Vanish.
23:23:07> Unknown Fury of the Five Flights stacked You 15.
23:23:07> Your Stealth faded You.
23:23:07> Your Vanish faded You.
23:26:33> Your Stealth applied You.
23:26:33> Your Vanish applied You.
23:26:33> You cast Vanish.
23:26:33> Unknown Fury of the Five Flights stacked You 10.
23:26:33> Your Stealth faded You.
23:26:33> Your Vanish faded You.
Last edited by bural : 03/02/09 at 12:39 PM.
Reason: misleading [b][/b]
Sorry, I was indicating that the vanish bug happens so often that if blizzard cannot reproduce it they are simply not trying.
It was perceived as whining and I received a demerit however it was not intended as such.
Alas, it is unfortunate that there appear to be several vanish bugs including the reintroduction of the old bug where pets ignore a vanish and continue to attack. Mage images and ghouls do this fairly often and other pets to a lesser extent.
There are also vanish bugs related to the vanishing character's own attacks and some related to incoming attacks. There also appears to be a bug related to boss encounter in combat status causing stealth to fade after a vanish.
/use Crashin' Thrashin' Racer Controller
/cast [target=Crashin' Thrashin' Racer] Tricks of the Trade
/startattack
Two clicks required, must be bound to something that isn't your main actionbar; it turns you into the car before casting Tricks. Might not be worth using for Patchwerk-esque fights for that reason, however. Source: WoW Forums, thanks Matt <Rogue Trainer> from Dalvengyr!
Originally Posted by Aldriana
But while Vulajin is only a pale shadow of my brilliance, he still contributes a fair amount to the community so I'd feel guilty
It's times like this that I love the rogue community :P
Well I gave this a go on the practice dummy on live and it does indeed work. Of course you can't summon the racer while in combat, so I did 2 rough tests: one in which I didn't use this cute gimmick and one in which I vanished every time it was on cooldown and popped the macro to get the buff. Naturally this probably wouldn't work if you're in a "real" fight where you may be taking damage from who knows what.
Regardless, even on the dummy I lost DPS by popping the macro when it was available, probably because the time you lose going through the whole rigmarole isn't worth the wasted energy/auto-attacks/specials. This leaves the possibility of maybe using it right at the beginning of a fight, but then depending on how the software resolves the circular threat dependency -- i.e., your threat is being transferred to yourself -- you may lose the primary benefit that TotT gives you. Namely the ability to start hitting the mob right away without over-aggroing, so in my eyes it's up in the air whether it's worth using this until they fix it.
Edit: Just tried it on a normal mob to see if I get any threat while the buff is up and the answer is yes, so the software does indeed resolve the circularity "correctly".
/use Crashin' Thrashin' Racer Controller
/cast [target=Crashin' Thrashin' Racer] Tricks of the Trade
/startattack
Two clicks required, must be bound to something that isn't your main actionbar; it turns you into the car before casting Tricks. Might not be worth using for Patchwerk-esque fights for that reason, however. Source: WoW Forums, thanks Matt <Rogue Trainer> from Dalvengyr!
Also only usable out of combat/before the pull, so not too huge of a dps bump either way.
Cougarhawk, how exactly does it resolve the threat issue, do you get double threat, or just the threat you'd have generated anyway?
Originally Posted by Actovision
If BB trends were to be taken as indicators of where the country is headed, then the trajectory of America would seem to be towards a technocratic, mercenary, debtor nation of violently atheistic, unmarried, childless hyper-polygamists with strong social safety nets. I can't wait!
As you can see in the buff bar in the right hand side you get both Tricks buffs - the one increasing damage and receiving threat and the one redirecting threat, so you're effectively doing the same tps you would've done without touching your tricks button.
Also only usable out of combat/before the pull, so not too huge of a dps bump either way.
Yep, unfortunately I didn't figure it out earlier, so it isn't nearly as exciting as I thought. Oh well, at least it's still somewhat cool to do - I'm not sure if it works in the arena but it sure sounds good for PvP.
Originally Posted by Aldriana
But while Vulajin is only a pale shadow of my brilliance, he still contributes a fair amount to the community so I'd feel guilty
It sure does, but as it counts as its a non-equipable use-item and doesn't go in the pet book it cant be summoned inside arenas.
(not even sure vanity pets can be summoned inside arenas)
Cougarhawk, how exactly does it resolve the threat issue, do you get double threat, or just the threat you'd have generated anyway?
I figured it would either generate the same threat, or no threat at all if the code itself was written under the assumption that TotT couldn't be self cast. As it turns out it just generates the normal amount of threat.
I know it's all in the tooltips but...there are some ambiguities.
4pc Bonescythe: Reduces the Energy cost of your Combo Moves by 5%.
It does not reduce Energy cost of moves that require stealth(ambush, garrote), So it's basically like Lethality.
But Fan of Knives Energy cost is reduced by 4pc Bonescythe. 50 to 47. 38 when stealthed with Overkill.
So that makes me wonder, if Fan of Knives is affected by Lethality, even if FoK doesn't generate combo points.
I know it's all in the tooltips but...there are some ambiguities.
4pc Bonescythe: Reduces the Energy cost of your Combo Moves by 5%.
It does not reduce Energy cost of moves that require stealth(ambush, garrote), So it's basically like Lethality.
But Fan of Knives Energy cost is reduced by 4pc Bonescythe. 50 to 47. 38 when stealthed with Overkill.
So that makes me wonder, if Fan of Knives is affected by Lethality, even if FoK doesn't generate combo points.
Ghostly Strike energy isn't lowered by 4pc bonus
Additionally I found a reason vanish breaking on dummy's: poison proccs after vanish.
/use Crashin' Thrashin' Racer Controller
/cast [target=Crashin' Thrashin' Racer] Tricks of the Trade
/startattack
Two clicks required, must be bound to something that isn't your main actionbar; it turns you into the car before casting Tricks. Might not be worth using for Patchwerk-esque fights for that reason, however. Source: WoW Forums, thanks Matt <Rogue Trainer> from Dalvengyr!
I've noticed while using this, if your stealthed it doesnt break the control of the racer when you cast ToT so you have to manually click it off.
Anybody know if there's any truth or has done some lengthy testing to test glyph of backstab affecting mutilate? I'm on my way out and just saw this thread
Anybody know if there's any truth or has done some lengthy testing to test glyph of backstab affecting mutilate? I'm on my way out and just saw this thread
Tricks of the trade is possibly bugged on live servers. The behavior we noticed tonight in raid is when two rogues would tricks the same person and then both attack within the duration of the tricks buff, the first rogue to attack was not getting all of his threat transferred.
To test the behavior we took two rogues and one other person and put them in a group. Both rogues tricksed the third person and attacked within a second of each other. The third person (the one getting the tricks buff) saw the first tricks go up, then the second tricks overwrote the first one when the second rogue attacked.
Prior to 3.1 I'm pretty sure if two rogues hit the same person with ToTT then that person got two distinct buffs, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Does anyone recall the behavior prior to 3.1 and has anyone else noticed this behavior with tricks since the patch?
3.1 stopped the enrage buffs from stacking, not sure about the threat transfer but didn't seem to have any issues last night when all rogues were throwing tricks on the tank as we pulled.
No, the character you cast Tricks on cannot further redirect your threat, even if he subsequently casts TotT on another person. Only his "normal" threat, as in from his own damage, will be transferred to his Tricks target. This is based on some accidental testing pre-3.1.
Have been running some testing on Killing Spree and found all of the below events happening. Sometimes together, sometimes just one of them.
- Hitting alot less than normal hits. Ex: 1800 white crit, 1100 KS crit (yes, its mainhand damage doublechecked this)
- Missing out on attacks. Some of the times it does a total of 4-9 attacks instead of the 10 its supposed to do.
- Moving targets sometimes makes it Mainhand damage only with a total of 5 attacjs, all mainhand.
- Can not be used while rooted. It is supposed to have a 10 yard range. Anything outside of normal melee range while in root makes it uncastable.
Was really excited about KS becoming a better ability so this is a real bummer.
Due to nature of our raids atm (Progression in Ulduar ofc) i havent been able to test it well in a Raid-envirement since im focusing on other things but with buggs like these in duels and vs Dummies surely it must be an issue in pve aswell.
Anyone finding any simular buggs with Killing Spree?
Got that video from a post on arenajunkies, seems legit, no flare around. The posts on arenajunkies says it might have something to do with Sniper Training.
Tricks of the trade is possibly bugged on live servers. The behavior we noticed tonight in raid is when two rogues would tricks the same person and then both attack within the duration of the tricks buff, the first rogue to attack was not getting all of his threat transferred.
To test the behavior we took two rogues and one other person and put them in a group. Both rogues tricksed the third person and attacked within a second of each other. The third person (the one getting the tricks buff) saw the first tricks go up, then the second tricks overwrote the first one when the second rogue attacked.
Prior to 3.1 I'm pretty sure if two rogues hit the same person with ToTT then that person got two distinct buffs, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Does anyone recall the behavior prior to 3.1 and has anyone else noticed this behavior with tricks since the patch?
This is how all misdirects have worked, forever. The second misdirect overwrites the first. Obviously only the same type of misdirect will overwrite: a ToTT won't overwrite the hunter's version.
This is how all misdirects have worked, forever. The second misdirect overwrites the first. Obviously only the same type of misdirect will overwrite: a ToTT won't overwrite the hunter's version.
It seems that this is no longer the case. There were multiple pulls on bosses today where at least two rogues would TotT on a tank on the pull, and neither of us were on the threat table in any substantive form for the early portion of the fight. While the 15% extra damage may only go on the tank once, it seems that the rogue's threat is still transferred to the target even if there are multiple instances of Tricks being put on the target.
"Every time I think I have met the craziest girl in the world and I am dumb for even considering her, there's always IMANG to remind me that people get knives pulled on them." -matte
02/23/09, 3:38 PM
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