Just tested on live: 5/5 precision, single axe MH, 100 hit rating. 100 swings resulted in 99 hits and 1 dodge. Thus, it appears that it is, in fact, fixed.
So talking to this GM about a loot issue, he asks - as they always do - if there's anything else he can help me with. As I'd just been looking over the damage breakdown, more specifically the low amount of Hack and Slash procs through Fan of Knives, I ask if he feels the behavior of the talent is consistent with the talent description. That is, all FoK attacks being able to proc Hack and Slash but the extra attack is executed on your main target if existing and if it's within melee range. The reply was that they acknowledge the issue and has it on their todo list, so Hack and Slash would attack the damaged target (consistent with the first part of the tooltip) rather than the current target. The same issue was present for Killing Spree jumps to secondary targets.
I just had something *very* weird happening to me in our last Heroic Twin Val'kyr try for the evening. For some reason or other, the game decided that it would be a good idea for me to hit Darkbane with all my autoattacks, even though I had Lightbane targeted and did all my specials on her. I realized something odd was happening during the fight but didn't figure it out until I had access to our WoL log afterwards. On top of that, I was parried by both of them even though I'm sure I was positioned well behind them to catch the occasional orb that would have flown by our melee camp.
I guess it has something to do with Killing Spree, since I got it off rather late during the pull and 40% of my hits were on the wrong target (Darkbane), but can't really say for sure. I did not use a focus macro for my styles, in fact, I did the exact same thing as I did the rest of the evening, but this was the only try that something like this has happened.
If you want to check it out: Here is the log query at WoL for the try. Just add a query with source = Terrodar and marvel at the weirdness of it all.
I just had something *very* weird happening to me in our last Heroic Twin Val'kyr try for the evening. For some reason or other, the game decided that it would be a good idea for me to hit Darkbane with all my autoattacks, even though I had Lightbane targeted and did all my specials on her. I realized something odd was happening during the fight but didn't figure it out until I had access to our WoL log afterwards. On top of that, I was parried by both of them even though I'm sure I was positioned well behind them to catch the occasional orb that would have flown by our melee camp.
I guess it has something to do with Killing Spree, since I got it off rather late during the pull and 40% of my hits were on the wrong target (Darkbane), but can't really say for sure. I did not use a focus macro for my styles, in fact, I did the exact same thing as I did the rest of the evening, but this was the only try that something like this has happened.
If you want to check it out: Here is the log query at WoL for the try. Just add a query with source = Terrodar and marvel at the weirdness of it all.
Remember that they share the same HP pool, so perhaps it was how the combat log parsed the data.
Definitely not, there is a huge damage difference for my autoattacks for the last try and every try before, which would account for the fight mechanics and me hitting the wrong target. You can easily check this out in the log query tool on World of Logs.
The thing that originally made me wonder that something was wrong was my WP damage which was only about 40% of what I expected and had in the tries before. The log confirms that I actually did all my autoattacks on Darkbane while having Dark Essence, I just can't figure out why, I can only suspect that it had something to do with Killing Spree.
Killing Spree doesn't make you change your primary target. So unless you completely untargeted the mob then then hit SS (or something else that would attack the closest enemy NPC), KSpree is not the culprit.
As I said: I had Lightbane targeted at all times and never switched targets. You can see in the log that all my special attacks landed on Lightbane, but all my autohits landed on Darkbane. The only way I know for something like this to happen is to have Darkbane targeted and use a macro for my specials that somehow (focus, mouseover) targets Lightbane while not switching my main target, and I did not do that. In fact, I did not change anything whatsoever for the last try compared to the three hours before that, besides the fact that my flask had run out.
Before someone asks: Yes, I am a 100% sure that I had Lightbane targeted at all times. I realized during the fight that something odd was happening and triple-checked my target. I did *not* drop my target and retarget her, maybe that would have solved the problem, but I can't really say for sure, since I can't reproduce the situation. As I said, I didn't actually realize *what* was wrong until I had access to the log, just that *something* was wrong.
There seems to be no reason or explanation at all for this kind of behaviour, and for the life of me, I can't figure out what happened in that try. Killing Spree was my one guess because the ability is prone to lead to strange situations, like raid symbols on you disappearing (something to do with the fact that the game considers you to be phased while in the KS animation, if I recall correctly) or getting parried while KS'ing (a hitbox problem, I think).
I've had KS exhibit this behavior before, it happens when I KS and it leaves me behind the mob I don't have targeted, but within specials range of the targeted mob but far enough away from the targeted mob that I am outside of its white hit range. I've been able reproduce it on the Darnassus dummies. Just dropping target completely then retargeting seems to fix it when it happens to me.
There still seem to be some misconceptions when it comes to the Savage Combat debuff issue.
The following screenshots where taken while wearing no trinkets or weapons with Berserking/Mongoose. http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/869...0909183129.jpg http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/512...0909182914.jpg
The combatlog of the first picture clearly shows there's a delay before the Savage Combat debuff goes up. While the combatlog reports Gouge as being performed after Savage Combat, it is clear when compared to the last picture - where there I delayed Gouge till Savage Combat was definitely up - that Gouge hits for 4% less (824*1.04=856.96~857) when performed just as Wound Poison is refreshed.
Here's the blue-response from a few days ago. http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/421...0909191349.jpg
Weirdly, he was expecting all poison to be subject to this issue. It'd appear the problem is Savage Debuff isn't tagged as refreshable for Wound Poison althought that particular poison is refreshable as shown in the screenshots.
I later checked if Trauma and Blood Frenzy was suffering from same issue, but refreshing Deep Wounds didn't cause the debuff to drop.
Due to some testing I did recently, I don't believe it is just a graphical error. I removed all trinkets, and used weapons with no enchants for the purposes of this test. I can also confirm that I was the only person attacking this test dummy. I set up a target debuff bar with Elkano's to display both Savage Combat and Wound Poison applications. I did several gouges without wound poison on the TD to set a baseline for what a non SC buffed gouge hits for, and was getting 845 non-crit, and 2461 crit respectively. I then applied wound poison to my OH and started auto attacking. I perforemd several gouges on the target with savage combat on the boss which landed for an expected 878-9 (1.04*845) I then watched for the "graphical error" and timed my gouges to go off when the display was showing the buff was off the dummy and was able to repeatedly get 845 gouges. Now I realize this doesn't test how long the buff was off, but it does show that the graphical error is not merely a display error but does effect damage.
This is something that has been investigated in the past, and was deemed to be working correctly at the time. However, as you were earlier informed by an in-game Game Master, it should be working the same way for all poisons. I have passed on your report that this doesn't appear to be so.
While they are sorting that I thought it'd be worth to look at the actual downtime caused by this issue.
Let's first consider a log segment from Anub'arak where 3 rogues use dual Wound Poison.
[20:53:49.039] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:49.404] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[20:53:50.270] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:50.623] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[20:53:50.675] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:50.989] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Aiso
[20:53:51.096] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:51.416] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Aiso
[20:53:51.862] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:52.222] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Bural
[20:53:53.112] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:53.860] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Bural
[20:53:53.896] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:54.204] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Bural
[20:53:54.305] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:54.607] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Bural
[20:53:55.060] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:55.843] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Aiso
[20:53:56.237] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:56.237] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Aiso
[20:53:56.635] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:56.635] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[20:53:59.430] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:53:59.430] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Bural
[20:54:00.227] Anub'arak's Savage Combat fades
[20:54:00.227] Anub'arak afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
Within 11 seconds, Savage Combat drops 13 times with a total downtime of 3.853 seconds or just about 35%.
Now consider the following log for Fjola Lightbane for 41 seconds. A single rogue is attacking her using Deadly+Wound.
[19:52:09.973] Fjola Lightbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:52:09.973] Fjola Lightbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[19:52:12.391] Fjola Lightbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:52:12.391] Fjola Lightbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[19:52:25.698] Fjola Lightbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:52:26.495] Fjola Lightbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[19:52:26.827] Fjola Lightbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:52:26.827] Fjola Lightbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[19:52:29.239] Fjola Lightbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:52:29.239] Fjola Lightbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[19:52:32.862] Fjola Lightbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:52:32.862] Fjola Lightbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[19:52:38.067] Fjola Lightbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:52:49.317] Fjola Lightbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[19:52:49.816] Fjola Lightbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:52:50.523] Fjola Lightbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
[19:52:51.691] Fjola Lightbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:52:51.691] Fjola Lightbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Teshkal
Here Savage Combat drops 9 times over 41seconds, 6 of the times it's actually renewed, 1 time the drop is 11seconds long due to a Shield of Light. Adding up the downtime aside from that gives 3% downtime.
Even better, consider the log for Eydis Darkbane for the entire fight
[19:51:49.054] Eydis Darkbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Aiso
[19:54:16.506] Eydis Darkbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:54:17.247] Eydis Darkbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Aiso
[19:54:17.317] Eydis Darkbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:54:17.676] Eydis Darkbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Aiso
[19:54:18.880] Eydis Darkbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:54:18.880] Eydis Darkbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Bural
[19:54:22.458] Eydis Darkbane's Savage Combat fades
[19:54:22.458] Eydis Darkbane afflicted by Savage Combat from Bural
[19:55:56.025] Eydis Darkbane's Savage Combat fades
Instead of miliseconds, we're talking minutes between Savage Combat dropping from the target. The only difference is the use of dual Wound Poison rather than Wound+Deadly
I personally only use dual Wound on Anub'arak althought I've considered it for Beasts, but let's stick with the implications this has for Anub'arak.
If I'm assigned to put up Mindnumbing, I've thus far used a 3rd offhand and swap it in some 10 seconds before the cooldown on Shadow Strike finishes allowing me 2 or 3 Fans to spread it. With a duration of 10 seconds, Mind Numbing will keep up Savage Combat for maximum 20seconds. Outside this period which is you can only expect to gain 0.04*(1-0.35)=2.6% from Savage Combat on Anub'arak.
The bug will cause Wound Poison to refresh at a much lower frequency on the Burrowers however as it is only applied twice per FoK and not by constant autoattacking. Furthermore the application of Mind Numbing should garanti Savage Combat is up on the Burrowers for the majority of their health.
So, is 1.4% increased physical damage on Anub'Arak worth loosing consistently higher damage on the Burrowers? I personally doubt it, atleast while progressing on Anub'arak. For record attempts it's most likely worth ensuring Savage Combat is kept up on Anub'arak thought other means than Wound Poison.
I also do not believe the savage combat bug is merely graphical. I gouged training dummies several times with only wound poison on and noticed that sometimes it hit for 714 and sometimes for 742, approximately a 4% difference. It similarly also crit for 2079 and 2163, again, a 4% difference. All of these gouges were with a single berserking buff and nothing else.
Until this is fixed it seems like it would be wise to either go wound/deadly or convince another rogue in your guild to do so.
I am not sure if it is of any relevance or it has been posted before but I was able to keep up Savage Combat debuff up as Mutilate even after the combats rogue poison droped (tried it several times on the dummie).
Not that the ability doesn't work well, its just that sometimes I use it but the target I am trying to use it on is like .05 yards out of range, and due to latency or "bugginess", a GCD is used but the ability isn't used.
Like, Warrior Bladestorms,
Evasion
Feint, GCD timer enabled, Feint not enabled
Feint, GCD timer enabled, Feint not enabled
*at this time i get frustrated and jump into him and feint, and it works*
The problem i see in this is the GCD shouldn't go on cooldown if the ability isn't used.
Not that the ability doesn't work well, its just that sometimes I use it but the target I am trying to use it on is like .05 yards out of range, and due to latency or "bugginess", a GCD is used but the ability isn't used.
Like, Warrior Bladestorms,
Evasion
Feint, GCD timer enabled, Feint not enabled
Feint, GCD timer enabled, Feint not enabled
*at this time i get frustrated and jump into him and feint, and it works*
The problem i see in this is the GCD shouldn't go on cooldown if the ability isn't used.
Is Feint considered a physical attack? Can it be parry/dodged? Maybe that's what's happening--an ability that is executed but fails for some reason will invoke the GCD, but an OOR error will not (or at least should not) trigger it.
As far as I recall, I've previously had envenom failing because I was out of range, invoking the GCD but not consuming combopoints. So my best guess is that it's related somehow to how the client and server interacts.
Not that the ability doesn't work well, its just that sometimes I use it but the target I am trying to use it on is like .05 yards out of range, and due to latency or "bugginess", a GCD is used but the ability isn't used.
Like, Warrior Bladestorms,
Evasion
Feint, GCD timer enabled, Feint not enabled
Feint, GCD timer enabled, Feint not enabled
*at this time i get frustrated and jump into him and feint, and it works*
The problem i see in this is the GCD shouldn't go on cooldown if the ability isn't used.
Its buggy, but it isnt really rogue specific. This started back when the spell queue was added so you could back to back spellcasting without /stopcasting macros/timing.
Can tricks be resisted? I know how it sounds, but starts to happen too often. A rogue is tricking me, I can hear the sound, combat log does the spellcast succeed event (I have done event to notify me of that), but nothing after - I get no tricks buff, nor his addon that whispers when tricks is activated says anything. Happens again and again and wanted to ask if someone have seen such behavior.
I have died many 'o times by failed tricks to the tank in heroics. Spoke to a GM about it and they seemed to know about the issue (since 3.3). I assumed that there was a range check or something implemented in some clunky way, but range shouldn't be an issue in your case.
Can tricks be resisted? I know how it sounds, but starts to happen too often. A rogue is tricking me, I can hear the sound, combat log does the spellcast succeed event (I have done event to notify me of that), but nothing after - I get no tricks buff, nor his addon that whispers when tricks is activated says anything. Happens again and again and wanted to ask if someone have seen such behavior.
I've noticed this as well, every once in a while, you don't get the buff, no whisper from TrickorTreat.
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
I've noticed this as well. I have checked WoL and it still shows us receiving it, it's just not showing the icon. I've also noticed that neither myself nor my Tricks partner have noticed our dps decrease, so I think its safe to assume that its an icon bug of just displaying occasionally, but that's just in my case. I'd check your combat logs as my TrickorTreat is not registering it either but I still see the dps increase.
The issues is arriving during TOT rotations. A rogue and I will TOT in the same second. We have noticed that if we TOT and then proc it within the same second, we do not get the "buff" for the TOT icon. I haven't found out if we are actually getting the buff or not. It is happening pretty often on stand still fights like saurfang. Can someone check into this? I'm positive I'm giving my aggro away--but I'm not sure the target is getting the 15% dmg increase.
There is definetly some sort of issue with TotT not applying appropriately. Last night on Anub, I used TotT on the OT for the adds and the adds proceeded to melee me and had full agro on me. Tricks was clearly on cooldown and the OT clearly was the target, yet the mechanic was not active. I have a hard time believing its some kind of range mechanic because in heroics I will tricks the tank and sprint ahead to pull more packs creating a larger range deficit than experianced on the anub encounter.
It could be that they are removing the buff when you are giving it to them to mess with you =P. Seriously though, I have yet to notice this issue but I will keep an eye out for it.
I was having the same problem as Bishopsik but noticed when I hit tricks then a target it seemed to not happen as when I used my Focus macro so I wrote a new macro
#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/target tank
/cast tricks of the trade
/s Tricks used on %t.
/targetlasttarget
/in 30 /s Tricks cool down has expired.
Since then I have not had any problems.
Last edited by Alphabet Soup : 01/22/10 at 7:57 PM.
10/04/09, 6:43 PM
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