"Buggy" Rogue Mechanics? - Page 6

PessimiStick · 12/04/08, 5:23 PM

Originally Posted by Iamzim

It is entirely possible that I am reading the WWS incorrectly, but it would appear that the rogue in question was not waiting for 5 combo points before eviscerating, as the listed average eviscerate was listed as dealing 3577 damage, and instead just spamming them on GCD.

3577 is pretty standard for a 4/5-pointer. Regardless, two people I trust posted confirming the bug in that thread. Multiple HAT rogues interact and feed CP to each other for no reason.

Demi9OD · 12/04/08, 5:23 PM

Originally Posted by Iamzim

It is entirely possible that I am reading the WWS incorrectly, but it would appear that the rogue in question was not waiting for 5 combo points before eviscerating, as the listed average eviscerate was listed as dealing 3577 damage, and instead just spamming them on GCD.

Perhaps the bug with keeping combo points after a finisher was what allowed him to perform so many eviscerates. We have not nailed down what causes it, but seeing as every global is being used on a finisher he probably had a ton of chances to keep CPs after a finisher.

◊ gwystyl · 12/04/08, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by Iamzim

It is entirely possible that I am reading the WWS incorrectly, but it would appear that the rogue in question was not waiting for 5 combo points before eviscerating, as the listed average eviscerate was listed as dealing 3577 damage, and instead just spamming them on GCD.

You may be misreading the WWS. 3577 is not his average Eviscerate overall. It's his average *non-crit* Eviscerate. If you click the little + icon in the upper right corner of the stats field, it opens up detail. What you see is that 47% of his Eviscerates were non-crit and averaged 3577. 52% of his Eviscerates (rounding error) were crits and averaged 7890. His overall average would then be 3577*47.54% + 7890*52.46% = 5839.6.

• Neto- · 12/04/08, 5:46 PM

I tested it myself with a level 66 rogue and you get 2 combo points per crit, and sometimes it starts chaining like crazy and you get a ridiculous amount of CPs in 2-3 seconds. I'm not sure what exactly triggers the latter, though.

Iamzim · 12/04/08, 5:55 PM

Originally Posted by gwystyl

You may be misreading the WWS. 3577 is not his average Eviscerate overall. It's his average *non-crit* Eviscerate. If you click the little + icon in the upper right corner of the stats field, it opens up detail. What you see is that 47% of his Eviscerates were non-crit and averaged 3577. 52% of his Eviscerates (rounding error) were crits and averaged 7890. His overall average would then be 3577*47.54% + 7890*52.46% = 5839.6.

My mistake, thank you for correcting me.

::Edit::
Removed the last part because I am stupid and misunderstood what was being said.

Kumar · 12/04/08, 5:57 PM

No, the talent description reads,

This effect cannot occur more than once every second.

That would refer to the effect of gaining a CP from a crit can not occur more than once every second.

Iamzim · 12/04/08, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by Kumar

That would refer to the effect of gaining a CP from a crit can not occur more than once every second.

A quote from Ghostcrawler when this issue was first brought up:
"I will add that some players have wondered if Honor Among Thieves is bugged since the cp can occur more often than 1 sec. In this case, the tooltip is just unclear. When Jimmy the Shaman crits, he cannnot “send you” a combo point more often than 1 per sec. But if you have lots of players critting all the time, you can build them up quickly. So Honor is (here it comes) working as intended. "

Just for the sake of clarity: Is the current suspected bug is that, if you have 2 rogues in the same group with HAT, when one rogue gains a combo point, the other rogue gains an extra one as well? IE Rogue 1 crits with an eviscerate, Rogue 1 gains a combo point from his crit. Rogue 2 gains a combo point from Rogue 1s crit and Rogue 2 gains a combo point from Rogue 1s HAT proc?

Iamzim · 12/04/08, 6:50 PM

I just tested the above explanation for the HAT bug as I understood it, and HAT seems to be functioning as normal. Finishers not consuming combo points aside, I don't understand what bug you are referencing Neto. Could you please explain what you suspect the bug to be in further detail?

Leto · 12/04/08, 6:55 PM

Originally Posted by Iamzim

I just tested the above explanation for the HAT bug as I understood it, and HAT seems to be functioning as normal. Finishers not consuming combo points aside, I don't understand what bug you are referencing Neto. Could you please explain what you suspect the bug to be in further detail?

Did you have another HaT rogue in your party?

The way I understand it at least, is each rogue gains 1 cp per party member crit per HaT rogue in the party.

You can't test this alone.

Iamzim · 12/04/08, 6:56 PM

I tested this with another HAT rogue in the party, my apologies for not specifying that. We each only gained one CP per crit.

• Neto- · 12/04/08, 7:09 PM

I just tested it again and it is definitely still bugged.

I know this isn't the most decisive proof but I attached some screenshots.

For the first screenshot, I didn't hit the dummy at all; I asked my friend (by the way, thanks Syvana!) to Hemorrhage him until he scored a crit. The second one I crit my own Hemorrhage. Syvana got 2cps out of my crit.

Kumar · 12/04/08, 7:14 PM

So the bug then is crits are giving 2 CPs instead of one. Does this happen every crit or only some crits?

Iamzim · 12/04/08, 7:15 PM

That is strange. I just tested in the exact same manner and we each only gained the one CP from the critical hits.

• Neto- · 12/04/08, 7:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kumar

So the bug then is crits are giving 2 CPs instead of one. Does this happen every crit or only some crits?

Every crit.

Iamzim · 12/04/08, 7:52 PM

I just double and triple checked everything, both my spec, and the spec of the other rogue. Re-tested everything, and we are still only gaining one CP per crit. Is it possible that this bug is due to a glyph or some such nonsense?

::Edit:: Screen shots below
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6588/test1ek2.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9761/test2xs0.jpg

• Neto- · 12/04/08, 8:01 PM

I have no idea. I tested it about a hundred times and me and Syvana still get 2CPs from crits. Maybe they started hotfixing it and got your realm before mine.

Anyways, just tested this with three rogues specced into HAT: 3 combo points per crit.

songster · 12/04/08, 8:13 PM

Originally Posted by sephfiroth

Most likely TotT only melee attacks. Though FoK+TotT works well.

Easiest way to test would be to TotT a tank, and see if you can single misdirect a mob using throwing weapon.

You can with a gun, you can with shiv, you can with mutilate. I see no reason why it's not all your abilities (as distinct from an engineering item, where it's not your ability but the item's ability).

sephfiroth · 12/04/08, 8:15 PM

Originally Posted by songster

You can with a gun, you can with shiv, you can with mutilate. I see no reason why it's not all your abilities (as distinct from an engineering item, where it's not your ability but the item's ability).

Im not sure what to tell you, but I do know that explosives do generate threat. As to why that threat isnt being transferred via TotT, I can't really say.

Macabrie · 12/04/08, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by Neto-

I have no idea. I tested it about a hundred times and me and Syvana still get 2CPs from crits. Maybe they started hotfixing it and got your realm before mine.

Anyways, just tested this with three rogues specced into HAT: 3 combo points per crit.

Just to rule out possibilities (other than a rolling hot-fix); which glyphs are you using?

• Neto- · 12/04/08, 8:43 PM

Originally Posted by Macabrie

Just to rule out possibilities (other than a rolling hot-fix); which glyphs are you using?

Slice and Dice, Rupture and Eviscerate.

Iamzim · 12/04/08, 8:47 PM

SnD, Rupture, SS.

Gaviin · 12/05/08, 1:02 AM

Can someone confirm/deny that the Master Poisoner bug has been hotfixed?

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - GC:The Truth (Blizzard #'s=not real PVE)Rogue

◊ chalon · 12/05/08, 1:48 AM

Yes, it's been fixed since Monday night.

amele · 12/05/08, 3:10 AM

I ran into this while fiddling with imp. snd and CttC builds:

When you just use slice and dice at 5 cps, you get (snd+glyph)*imp.snd = 36 seconds of slice time.

When you refresh with envenom/eviscerate and CttC, you get (snd*imp.snd)+glyph = 34.5 seconds of slice time.

songster · 12/05/08, 8:36 AM

Originally Posted by Neto-

Slice and Dice, Rupture and Eviscerate.

The Eviscerate glyph is a potential difference here - potential mechanical link to the increase in crit rate effect of the glyph? Can you re-run the test without this glyph?