Ratak - US KT

Is that last 25% actually 24% (not sure on the current theory myself)?

 

• Aldriana

Yes, I meant to say 24. I'll edit to correct the typo.

 

Redcape

There is clearly really powerful data showing that white melee attacks suffer a 4.8% crit reduction. However, the only tests I see in this thread with any real yellow attack data are from Antiarc, and they show a fairly normal crit rate on his SS attacks.

Has anyone done any analysis on just yellow attacks? It changes the spreadsheet values fairly substantially if yellows are immune to this crit suppression, and based on glancing blow mechanics I can't see a good reason to assume that yellows and whites work the same way in this regard.

 

Rallik

Testing done on the PTR:
With 4.92% chance to crit, I saw a 2% crit rate on auto-attacks. Either the 4.8% crit depression has been reduced to somewhere around 3%, or rogues and warriors are affected differently by this mechanic(which seems rather unlikely). Any rogues care to re-test this on the PTR?

 

Mavanas

You could also repeat that experiement on live with using your warrior.

 

Rallik

Yep, I plan to. I also realized it could be caused by the low crit rate since just doing a typical DPS test in full gear showed about a 5% crit drop across all white and yellow attacks after 2 hours or so. Perhaps the crit depression won't reduce you below a minimum value.

 

Noxe

• 10000 hits
• 0/0/0 build
• no debuffs/buffs that could affect crit rate during test (PTR)

 

Dontmindme

As part of my spell crit depression testing last week, I also did some tests on the normal crit rate. 4.8% looked very solid without extensive testing. In fact, one of my 45 minute tests on spell crit, I also happened to have just a smidgen below 4.8% (tooltip read 4.80% in fact, theoretical was 4.796%, 107 crit, 230 agility) and I observed 0 crits on white attacks or specials. My notes have 595 successful wound poison applications for that run so I'd guess that was about 1500 normal attacks without a crit. I also tested just special attacks and 4.8% also seemed correct. I do not have the combat logs handy as I didn't bother to fully quantify that part of the testing given that I did not expect any crits anyway.

Edit: Also I just noticed in your picture that your weapon is broken. Did the weapon start broken or did it break during the testing? And does that weapon happen to have stats on it that enhances the crit rate.

 

Rallik

It was a tanking weapon, no crit, also no axe spec or any talents that would influence crit in any way, and both 1h axe/unarmed skill are maxed. It broke during testing when I had a few hundred hits to go until 10k and didn't want to repair. Since rogue tests on the PTR have re-confirmed the 4.8% reduction and that it's possible to reduce your crit chance all the way to 0%, the only 2 explanations I can think of that remain are:

A) Warriors only receive a ~3% reduction in crit chance.
B) DWing causes a 4.8% reduction while single wielding(one handers at least, and perhaps 2hers) only receive a ~3% reduction.

Edit: Tested a few thousand hits dual wielding tomahawks with a 0/0/0 spec and no other gear. This rules out B, and it must just be the warriors and rogues have different crit penalties, weird. 276 crits out of 14250 swings is a 1.94% crit rate, which is 2.98% below the expected value of 4.92%.

 

Dontmindme

What would be more helpful than just screenshots of recount, would be combat logs themselves. These might provide insight into the issue. For example. we could see if the crits are more prominent at certain times or see whether there were unexpected debuffs on the boss that you did not notice.

 

Durinix

The debuff thing is correct, the crit frequency changing isn't really an issue, the sample size is large enough that error from that sort of luck is tiny. In fact, doing a normal approximation confidence interval on this data shows the following hit table for Rallik while Dual Wielding:

miss -> 27.6 ± 0.6%
glance -> 23.6 ± 0.6%
dodge -> 7.1 ± 0.3 %
crit -> 1.8 ± 0.2%
Hit -> whatever make this 1.

This is all assuming that additional debuffs weren't added to the dummy at any time.

Rallik, can you redo both sets of data and post wws parses? Don't wear any gear except the weapon.

 

Rallik

Wow Web Stats

Done with 2xDalaran Sword/4.92% crit/and 0 talents.

 

Dontmindme

Well, it's certainly looking that the crit depression is lower for you for some reason. I'm a little curious what your crit rate would look like vs. a level 80 dummy. I recall when some classes were receiving unexpected bonuses to hit rating with the 51-point talent conversion and removal of some talents. Should your crit rate look to be about 2% vs a level 80 dummy, then something is giving you 2% more crit overall and the crit depression might still be 4.8% for all classes. Otherwise, it looks to be class specific which seems odd although possible.