songster

Unclear. The energy return from Focused Attacks is significant, and offsets the effect of the harder hitting Mutilates. I don't have a version of the spreadsheet that includes the Envenom glyph. What I do have is a version that has IP on a PPM model. What we can do is look at the effect of weapon speed using dual IP in this sheet. This has the same effect as the Envenom glyph (i.e. it makes your poison DPS stay the same irrespective of weapon speed), and so it will tell us how the weapon speed / Mutilate / FA interaction pans out.

So, I looked in this version of the sheet, and used Webbed Death (1.4), Murder (1.5) or Twilight Mist (1.8) in main hand or offhand. The results were that the MH has a slight preference for slow weapons, with about 1% total DPS difference between WD and TM. The offhand is completely unaffected by weapon speed: there is a total of 7 DPS variation between the three weapons, or ~0.12% damage. The harder hitting Mutilates are exactly cancelled by the increased damage from FA procs.

 

◊ chalon

And when you take into account that Sinister Revenge is 171 DPS, you can probably pretty safely say that with the Envenom glyph, 2x Sinister Revenge will be the best combo.

 

• Aldriana

The numbers for what is effectively glyphed Envenom were run here, and the findings were that the general approach favors slow MHs slightly and fast OHs slightly, though weapon damage is more important than either effect. This, however, presupposes that we continue doing 4+ Envenom/Rupture cycles, which may not be the case; I'd suggest that further discussion of these facts be moved to the 3.1 changes thread, as it has very little to do with this spreadsheet specifically, and there's some good discussion about that topic there already.

 

LordeX

So LPC/LPC is actually better then one of these combos:

*Sinister Revenge (1.80 speed)
*Knife of Incision (1.80 speed)
*The Fleshshaper (1.80 speed)
*Rolfsen's Ripper (1.70 speed / only offhand)

or

LPC/SR

 

songster

Use the spreadsheet to check for your own gear. It will be quite borderline as to whether LPC/LPC is better than LPC/SR, and nobody can give you a definite answer. No other combinations are worth considering.

 

Rippt

I have a curious question, and I've only heard whispers of it in other threads.
Does TtT stack with other crit-ups. (ie LotP and rampage)
I've always assumed it stacked but wanted a definite confirmation.

 

Armanewb

It isn't the same buff by any means, being a combo move only crit chance increase. So yes, it does stack with LotP/Rampage

Link to actual armory: Here

 

Tinwhisker

Raid buffs do not stack with like raid buffs, TtT is a personal buff to specific attacks so yes they do stack.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

EntrepeNinja

Alright, for serious. Let's talk some turkey. If envenom hits live the way it is, what will the ideal glyph choice be? If a rupture free cycle, no need for glyph of rupture, if you're spamming envenom every 4 dots, there's no need for G: SnD, and there wasn't a third glyph for us really anyways-
but with these new 3.1 glyphs coming in, I'm really excited. IE Glyph of mut, glyph of HfB, and glyph of Envenom? Has anyone had a chance to play with these new glyphs/rotations?

 

Kaidagar

As I stated earlier there is currently no easy way to get the glyphs for testing purposes, Blizzard intends to introduce an npc that has all the glyphs in a future PTR update. The envenom change and the imp poisons change are still not working correctly so any testing carried out currently for the assassination build would inheritly be flawed. Blizzard have acknowledged that the issue has been reported but have remained ominiously quite on that front. Some of the new glyphs do look extremely promising, particularily the three you have mentioned.

 

• Aldriana

Some rough estimates on relative glyph quality and their implications can be found here. More detailed modeling is needed before we can know with absolute certainty what will be best; I, at least, have held off on doing so in the hope that Bliz has more changes forthcoming to address the lingering issues and stupidities of rogue DPS.

 

Kilgore

From reading the 3.1 preview thread it seems as if the Glyph of Envenom was removed supposively because of HaT 'abuse' of it. I believe the changes of the glyph on envenom were then put into master poisoner (deep assassination) to add a bnous to the deadly poison applications. My guess is it seems as if blizz likes an IDN rotation more than an IIV rotation.

Tis a shame, the envenom glyph was going to rock Mut's socks.

 

• Aldriana

I've uploaded a reworked version of the Mutilate sheet, and a draft of a combat sheet, in the first post, both updated for 3.1. I can't swear they're bug free (in fact, it would shock me if they don't have bugs), but for those of you who want to get a starting point on comparing specs and gear with 3.1 mechanics, you're welcome to take a look at them. If you find problems, let me know.

 

Joigahdenn

I can't seem to download either. Might be because I am on campus right now, but that normally didn't hinder me. All that happens is an empty page appears.

 

stedfunk

I can't download them either, it just takes me to a blank page

 

• Aldriana

Hmm, both links work just fine for me. I guess it must be server load or something. Anyway, here's some temporary savefile links for the meantime:

Free file hosting by Savefile.com
Free file hosting by Savefile.com

 

Reddwolfe

I do not believe the problem rests with your computers or location. I am getting a blank page also, for both downloads. There may be a problem with the links, and am guessing that it will be fixed soon.

 

Almehym

I'm getting ### in cell K130 on the combat version of the sheet.

I assume you're including all applicable raid buffs along with flasks. Do you have it set for agility or ap food, do you include haste pots, and (most importantly) for hit (soft) cap purposes, are you including the Draenai buff?

 

• Aldriana

The ### just means the result (with decimals) is too wide for the column - widen column K and it'll work. It does assume a Draenei; Update rows 55-57 in combat or 48-50 in mutilate to adjust that. Base racial stats are in rows 33 and 34 (Mutilate) or 40 and 41 (combat) if you want to change those as well. Consumables are agi food and flask; if you want to change that, look at rows 44 and 45 (combat) or 37 and 38 (Mutilate).

 

jorysaywut

Has there been any conclusive testing about armor penetration or are we waiting until live to test? I'm curious about the value of armor pen rating as the modified spreadsheets show pretty high values even for a mutilate build.

Edit: I guess my post is a little off-thread but relevant in the sense that I'd like to know if a live armor pen rating value has been established for your spreadsheet or it's still unsure. Also by modified spreadsheets, I meant Vulajin's.

Edit2: Alright thanks.

 

• Aldriana

ArPen modeling is based on the formula in this post, with a guess at how Serrated Blades applies. That may or may not be what it is on live - we'll need to retest. But that's what it was until pretty recently on PTR.

 

• Feist-Mok

Is the new Master Poisoner (+Procrate on Deadly Poison) implemented?

Sheet is showing it as a DPS loss which is surprising I guess.


Edit: Aaaaand on tweaking more, it looks like it is, and only 2/3 is worth it with the last point better spent in Turn the Tables. Interesting.

 

Varik

First of all your work in theorycrafting is greatly appreciated and I was glad to find these updated spreadsheets in time for the European 3.1 launch.

I do however have a question though: (only checked the combat sheet so far)

Enchant Ring - Assault is only listed once and thus also only counted once for total AP.
Since I usually tend to enchant both my rings the value of that enchant should be 64AP instead of 32.

All this of course unless I'm missing something in which case I humbly apologize and request enlightenment.

 

Lightshadow

Put a 2 in the column instead of a 1 ;-)

 

Varik

D'oh!
Too easy...
always considered the field as a simple on/off switch - it never even occurred to me to use it for amounts as well.

Nevermind, all is well and the world may continue rotating.