Surlybeve

Is there any way you could add Improved Eviscerate to the talent selection on the combat sheet? Ruptureless cycles dont have much use for Blood Spatter and Imp. Evis is the next obvious choice

 

Jaron

Imp. Evis is model'd on the beta version of the spreedsheet... 1.3. You can download it and try it out... the last non-beta release "1.2" does not model rupture-less cycles.

 

nayeta

Today I finally managed to get the gear for the ruptureless cycle.

Now according to the 1.3 beta 2 sheet, I get more DPS from speccing into 2/3 imp. evisc. and 3/3 ruthlesness (=7788.8 DPS) then vice versa (=7785.3 DPS). What I want to know now is if this is correct assuming 3/3 imp. evisc. and 2/3 ruthlesness is supposed to be better, or that the sheet still needs a bit of finetuning for this matter. I don't think I oversaw something or that my gear changes this.

Also I was wondering why Aldriana uses 511 armorpenetration with alot of agility gems instead of getting as close to the mjolnir-cap as possible by exchanging some of those agility gems into armorpenetration ones. I implemented your latest gear in my sheet and to me it shows a dps increase by doing so.

Additional note: I still need to regem my boots to 2x deadly ametrine instead of 2x fractured cardinal ruby. This I did do in my sheet.

Am I missing something here?

 

• Aldriana

Ald's armory shows 511 ArPen since Ald used her ring to get back to Dalaran and didn't switch back to her usual DPS ring before logging off. Were Ald wearing her Brann's Sealing Ring with a Fractured Cardinal Ruby in it like usual, Ald would be at 564 ArPen. Ald also thinks Ald will stop talking in the third person now.

Regarding Imp Evis versus Ruthlessness: that it what the theory shows for the moment. However, it's worth noting that in terms of burst damage and/or rapid target switching, the point in Imp Evis will help more than the point of Ruthlessness; as such there is a reasonable case to be made that in practice the increased burstability outweights the .04% sustained DPS loss.

 

zhrgg

I tried using the spreadsheet to see how to change my gemming, but I was confused by the "MH Base Crit" Aldriana mentioned but I couldn't find. The SS says my white crit cap is at 62.05%, with baseline 46.50%. Raid buffed without Horn of Winter and trinks procced (Death's Choice/DMC:G) I came to have about 65% crit last night. I already had a sneaking suspicion, but does that mean I'm over the crit cap for all attacks?

Edit: Nevermind, I was using 1.2. I now see the MH crit ><

 

Mavanas

Is Ald posting same post in two threads, talking about Ald in third person too^^? Either way before people start respeccing, the difference between 2/3 imp evisc and 2/3 ruthlessness is VERY small.

 

Jetamania

The Combat 1.2 spreadsheet is confusing me about something.

With my current gear and [The Lion's Maw] the spreadsheet gives me 7595.5 dps.

With the very same gear, and [Serilas, Blood Blade of Invar One-Arm] the spreadsheets gives me 7575.2 dps.

However, when I have [The Lion's Maw] as the MH, the sheet still shows [Serilas, Blood Blade of Invar One-Arm] as a 22.15 dps UPGRADE in "suggested upgrades collum".

Is there something I'm missing in the spreadsheet? What I'd really like to know is which option is the best. This is with ArmPen and Agi/Crit gems in all sockets according to the spreadsheet recommendations.

 

saedo

The numbers in those columns is not dps, they are EP values. So perhaps it's merely the change in interaction between the difference in stats of exp/hit etc on that weapon that's making it more valued EP wise, but less valued dps wise. Anyways, believe the dps value more, it's exact. EP is a rough estimate.

 

Jaron

Without looking at your armory at all, I could guess the reason for this is because you are currently expertise capped without either sword being used. When you equip the Serilas... you are wasting 26 expertise rating. Therefore, even though the total EP value is better on the Serilas, the Maw is better for you because you are not wasting stats.

I hope this is the incase, and if it is... I hope it helped.

 

paulsen

I'm starting to think I'm going blind.. you guys are talking about the 1.3 spreadsheet, but I can't for the life of me find any attachment with it (or a download link). Also, I'm one of those with outdated gear after a long summers vacation, and my now sub-par gear isn't in the spreadsheet anymore. Aldriana, you don't have a copy of one of the old spreadsheets wich still contain T8? Is it possible to just copy over the gear in the new spreadsheet?

 

Jaron

Post 1141 (on page 46) has the download link for the beta combat sheet.

In regards to adding older gear, this can easily be done by yourself. You simply copy one of the rows (try not to copy the last row) and then right click that copy'd row and select "insert copy'd". It will paste the new row in there. After that, just change the name of the item and adjust the stats.

 

paulsen

Thank you sir!

OT: I'm using OpenOffice, and it's hiding some of the pages in the spreadsheet. Any idea on how to make them appear?

 

• Aldriana

You really shouldn't need to unhide any of the pages in 1.3; everything you might reasonably want to be editing is in the 4 visible sheets. But if you want to for some strange reason, it's format -> sheet -> show.

 

MasterDinadan

I believe somebody asked about how to adjust the spreadsheet to accommodate for the upcoming armor penetration change. I tried to make this change myself.

What I did was open the Calcs sheet, go to row 96, and adjust the formula by replacing "1.25" with "1.1", making sure to copy the formula across all columns. I also modified the formulas in rows 846-849 and 857-860 in the same fashion.

I've checked rather thoroughly and don't think I missed any ArP calculations, but surprisingly my EP value for ArP drops from 2.04 to 1.97. I don't have a lot of armor penetration, but this change still seems a lot smaller than it ought to be, so I feel like I must be overlooking something.

Edit - I hadn't turned off the "Use Agi Value for ArPen?" setting, so obviously the number I was looking at was pretty meaningless and not surprising at all. My real ArP value is 1.64 now which is in the neighborhood of what I was expecting.

 

Rahdik

I have a quick question about changing the spreadsheet to reflect the ArP nerf.

Is it really necessary to change 849 and 860 (calculates when you have both MR and GT) because wont it always remain 1?

 

• Aldriana

Yes. 665 + 612 < 1400. So it might not be 1.

 

Batory

I have a question regarding rupture-free cycles for combat.
I've been testing several rotations with currently plugged gear (check my armory profile) in order to see which cycle keeps 100% SnD uptime and gives best results. I've tried it on heroic dummy, WP/DP poisons, no debuffs on target and no buffs either. I used Killing Spree each cooldown (or timed it in a way I had enough CP's for SnD and to refresh SnD just as Killing Spree was ending with roughly 50-60 energy pooled). Didn't cast AR nor BF.

5s/5e/5e cycle was giving me roghly 3640 DPS
3s/5e + 4s/5e/5e/3s (meaning, I switched to 2 finishers before 3s SnD refresh) was around 3890 DPS

Rupture with 4t8 + duskstalker shoulderpads with 4s/5r/5e gave me 3690 DPS

Cycles like 4s/5e/5e and most definitely 3s/5e/5e resulted in immediate SnD uptime drop.
Now, I'm not sure how much will this deviate in actual raid environment (I didn't have a chance to test it yet). It seemed, that 3s/5e was giving me suprisingly good results over suggested Xs/5e/5e cycle I've seen on these forums shot time ago., however, I havn't dedicate enough time and perhaps should provide enough data once I get more time to record and post some screenshots. I would like to hear some thoughts however, and preferably, opinions of those who got a change to play rupture-free builds in 25man raid environemnt.

thanks

 

MasterDinadan

If SnD drops early on 5s/5e/5e just refresh it earlier, at 3 or so, pull off another 5e, and then figure out where you are at. Squeeze in another 5e if you were lucky, or just refresh 5s and start over.
You shouldn't be following a cycle so rigidly, especially in rupture-less cycles where it almost doesn't matter how many CPs you spend on SnD as long as you don't let it drop and don't refresh it before you need to.

And things are different in a raid environment. For starters, your crit rate will be higher which means more combo points.

 

• Golijov

As an aside to that, combo point usage for SnD does still matter somewhat, as SnD's DPE improves as you increase the number of combo points used on it. The question, and I'm not comfortable enough with excel to find where this is in Aldriana's sheet, is where the inflection point between improving the DPE of your SnD vs using more eviscerates (which obviously has a much higher DPE than sinister strike) is.

 

Volus

Is anyone else having a problem with the drop down menus? I can change the helm down to the gloves, and then after that no other gear will have a drop down menu (gems work fine, and also the enchants don't work.)

I'm running Excel on a Mac, Office 2008.

(I even selected 1 or 0 from the gear tab, that didn't work either.)

 

• Aldriana

So, I think the key thing to keep in mind is that the notion of rigid "cycles" for combat is sort of a dated concept - it worked well in vanilla, and even fairly well in TBC, but not so well in Wrath - primarily due to Glyph of Sinister Strike. No rotation of the form Xs5e5e is ever going to be indefinitely sustainable - and even repeating it on the timescales of a fight is generally impractical, unless your cycle is selected to be so slack as to be inefficient. Rather, it's becoming necessary to use a DoT-style priority system and simply refresh things as needed.

So, for SnD/Evis cycles, this is pretty easy:
1) If at any time, your SnD is about to drop, refresh it with whatever CPs you have.
2) Otherwise, build to 5 CP. If your SnD has less than n seconds left, start pooling. If you reach max pool with less than m seconds on SnD, refresh SnD. Otherwise evis.

So: we either refresh SnD with 5 CP with less than m seconds left, or we refresh it with whatever CP we can build in those m seconds with a full energy pool.

The obvious question remaining is simply what the values of n and m are; they are easily calculated, and 1.3 beta does this.

For low rupture damage cycles, the problem isn't much harder. One simply uses the same priority system, but rather than always Eviscerating, one ruptures if it's down and Eviscerates otherwise, yielding rupture uptime on the order of 70%. The efficiency of combo point expenditure outweighs the loss of rupture uptime. This, too, is modeled in 1.3 beta.

The hard part is high-rupture cycles, where maximizing rupture uptime is the priority. And defining the cycle for which SnD never drops and rupture uptime is maximized proves to be tricky; the current theory is something along the line of 5r3s[Xe], where the eviscerate is inserted only if CP generation allows; however, this proves somewhat tricky to model and I'm somewhat unconvinced it's actually optimal. A variant of this is what's currently being modeled, but the problem of finding a good maximal rupture uptime cycle is something that requires more thought and investigation - or at least, it does so long as 4/5 T8 sticks around. Once we move past that set bonus, we're in the realm of no-rupture or low-rupture anyway, so it matters less.

 

Mavanas

It's not clear to me if your low-rupture-uptime setup already uses this in the priority system, but one way to increase rupture uptime that I modeled in the simsheet is to put eviscerate on hold if less than k seconds are remaining on the rupture. It's similar to what you are doing with SND already. While it is not always beneficial, I found 4-piece t8 setups to favor a delay of up to 2 seconds on eviscerate. This method is also something I tend to use in practice when tracking rupture bar and pooling energy if it's about to expire.

In the simsheet, going from 0 delay to 2-second hold increases rupture uptime from 75% to 80%.

 

• Aldriana

Right now it's actually using a somewhat simplified assumption that you get one rupture per slice and dice with the low-rupture cycle, which, for the typical spec, isn't going to be too far off. If you start glyphing SnD or other such things is's a bit less accurate, but as a starting point it's not going to be too far off. Particularly since the damage difference between an Eviscerate and a Rupture tends not to be large - for instance, with my current gear, specced rupture, one second of increased rupture uptime is worth perhaps 140 damage - probably a bit less. Hence, increasing uptime from 75% to 80% only increases one's actual damage by approximately 7 DPS. A more sophisticated model would of course be nice, but you can see why it isn't an immediate priority.

 

• Aldriana

1.3 Beta 3 available. Starting to provide some cycle feedback, and assorted bugfixes. Also contains an option for the 3.2.2 ArPen Nerf. As usual, if you find issues, let me know.

Edit: Removed. Latest beta in post 1266.

 

• Golijov

That link appears to be broken, its going to the attachment page but no download ever starts.