Combat and Mutilate Spreadsheets (Obsolete as of 4.0.x) - Page 100

Tesfa · 10/09/09, 8:34 AM

I don't know if im in the right thread BUT,

The latest Versionfor combat :

Combat_1.3_(beta_4)

Has one incorrectly inputted stat for item:

[Knightbane Carapace]

The spreadsheet says 74 Haste when it should be 74 Arpen.

Now the question:

Banner of victory in this spreadsheet does not have AP value entered in the "Gear" sheet, is this a mistake also or is it some how figured already?

Also internal proc rate being 45% and proc chance being 20% + the haste of combat would it be safe to assume 1008*10/50 to assume the static AP value?

thank you.

Lightshadow · 10/09/09, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

The Savage Combat debuff dropping is just a graphical issue.

Before I posted that I removed all my gear and gave a test dummy a fair number of gouges"just to be sure", and got a very consistent result. That said, a couple people posting just after me found contrary results and I don't believe anyone ever took the time to look into it.

pinkshirtbadman · 10/09/09, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Tesen

I have a question regarding trinkets in the combat 1.3 (beta4) spreadsheet. Are the effects (click or proc) averaged over time for all of them? From what I can see they are, but i haven't dug deep into the calculations. I'm thinking about the additional value of a click-effect used with cds like BF, AR and KS. Right now the spreadsheet is telling me DMC-greatness is 14 dps better than Mark of supremacy, but I'm thinking Mark of supremacy might come out ahead in-game if used with those cds.

Yes they are averaged, meaning a proc trinket will vary a little depending on RNG and (in theory) over several attempts will average to adding that amount of DPS. A click on use trinket can be a little more tricky as the spreadsheet assumes you're using it every CD as soon as it is up. For some fights this is going to be the case, for some you're going to be holding that CD until you "need" it, which may result in it being used 2-3 times instead of say 5, which makes the trinket worth significantly less than the spreadsheet is showing it worth.

pinkshirtbadman · 10/09/09, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Tesfa

Banner of victory in this spreadsheet does not have AP value entered in the "Gear" sheet, is this a mistake also or is it some how figured already?

Also internal proc rate being 45% and proc chance being 20% + the haste of combat would it be safe to assume 1008*10/50 to assume the static AP value?

thank you.

It is being figured on the calcs page, you can easily see this(and also see what the value of the proc alone is) if you change the Armor Pen value to 0, the item still gives a score (a score that on my sheet that is close to your calculation).

Leto · 10/09/09, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by pinkshirtbadman

Yes they are averaged, meaning a proc trinket will vary a little depending on RNG and (in theory) over several attempts will average to adding that amount of DPS. A click on use trinket can be a little more tricky as the spreadsheet assumes you're using it every CD as soon as it is up. For some fights this is going to be the case, for some you're going to be holding that CD until you "need" it, which may result in it being used 2-3 times instead of say 5, which makes the trinket worth significantly less than the spreadsheet is showing it worth.

A spreadsheet assuming the average benefit from the on-use trinket wouldn't be considering whatever synergy there is with other cool downs. For example, mark has a 2 min cooldown, so you can simply macro it to use with blade flurry and it will always sync.

A flat on cd average would assume the 1024 ap affects 16.7% of your attacks (20/120), though if I'm not mistaken, using it with blade flurry, which increases the frequency of your attacks by 20% for it's duration, would increase the number of attacks affected by the trinket by 15% (15 sec bf duration / 20 sec trinket = 75% of trinket proc affecting 20% more attacks... .75 * 20 = 15). This should increase the effective ap benefit of the trinket by around 15%.

As for waiting to using the cd until you "need" it making it worth less, I disagree. If you need to use it for a certain burst, that has higher priority, and is contributing more to the success of the raid. You could simply use it on cd and get the same theoretical worth, but that might hinder raid success.

Hecktik4304 · 10/09/09, 1:50 PM

I was reading and someone asked if you turned on the arp option on in the new spread sheet? where can that be found?

koaschten · 10/09/09, 1:56 PM

Probably in the "settings" tab where it says "Use 3.2.2 ArPen conversion".

Hecktik4304 · 10/09/09, 2:29 PM

maybe im stupid but im not seeing on my sheet, i use excel to read the file. Is Combat 1.2(2) the latest file?

koaschten · 10/09/09, 2:35 PM

Go to the rogues forum overview, click the red button next to this thread. get the latest version of the sheet.

hitrate · 10/09/09, 2:40 PM

Hello, all... I am new here and I am having some spread sheet issues.

1. For some reason when i put all my gear in the speadsheet, the passive armor penetration is lower then what i actually have in game, by about 14 or so, not sure why that is

2. I have a ton of 245 gear and sitting passive arp at 743 (grim toll in my trink slot) and the sheet still recommends low rupture. and shows that evis build is less dps.

I see other rogues with my level of gear and less passive arp already in evis only build, I am not sure the issue. I got Aldrinnas latest build (her gear off of Armory for testing), input it and went between the the Evis and Low rupture talent builds. The sheet never says to go to evis only cycle, and only show a difference in dps between the 2 builds of around 30+ dps.. So I am just lost at the moment trying to figure this out.

Do i just have a bugged sheet? or am i really still to low to go to evis only?

3. The sheet says that dropping expertise below the cap nets me a higher dps number, this allows me to go from a 226 chest to a 232 chest and get more dps, so i did it. However, it also said that dropping below the hit cap would also net me more dps, even if i don't have Imp FF or Misery in my raid...

Should I trust this? Combat already seems to suffer from energy luls, especially if your Combat Potency goes on a down turn.

P.S my armory won't show 743 arp, i need to re gem my wrists.

Thanks, in advance for any help

Xaoc · 10/09/09, 3:47 PM

The sheet will never recommend Evis only if you're spec'd into Blood Spatter, which is what I assume you have your sheet set to.

The expertise and hit caps are not something you absolutely need to have. They are just there for reference. If the sheet says that dropping below the caps are more dps, than its most likely is. There is nothing stopping you from actually doing something different than what the spreadsheet recommends either.

sykoticc · 10/09/09, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by hitrate

Hello, all... I am new here and I am having some spread sheet issues.

1. For some reason when i put all my gear in the speadsheet, the passive armor penetration is lower then what i actually have in game, by about 14 or so, not sure why that is

2. I have a ton of 245 gear and sitting passive arp at 743 (grim toll in my trink slot) and the sheet still recommends low rupture. and shows that evis build is less dps.

I see other rogues with my level of gear and less passive arp already in evis only build, I am not sure the issue. I got Aldrinnas latest build (her gear off of Armory for testing), input it and went between the the Evis and Low rupture talent builds. The sheet never says to go to evis only cycle, and only show a difference in dps between the 2 builds of around 30+ dps.. So I am just lost at the moment trying to figure this out.

Do i just have a bugged sheet? or am i really still to low to go to evis only?

3. The sheet says that dropping expertise below the cap nets me a higher dps number, this allows me to go from a 226 chest to a 232 chest and get more dps, so i did it. However, it also said that dropping below the hit cap would also net me more dps, even if i don't have Imp FF or Misery in my raid...

Should I trust this? Combat already seems to suffer from energy luls, especially if your Combat Potency goes on a down turn.

P.S my armory won't show 743 arp, i need to re gem my wrists.

Thanks, in advance for any help

A rupture build might show up as higher dps on the sheet, but in a raid setting with target switches, Evis only rotation is much easier and would probably record higher numbers.

Gaviin · 10/09/09, 6:37 PM

I realize that this discussion might be better off in the "Buggy" Rogue Mechanics? thread, but for what it's worth, I too question whether this is simply a graphical error. I use an addon that tracks mob debuffs (Smarty), and this is obviously done at a deeper level that just looking for debuff icons. I've quite often noticed that the Savage Combat indicator is inactive during normal stretches of DPS on a single boss, despite the fact that I run with a combat rogue running Wound Poison.

I don't have much (any) hard evidence beyond that, but I figured I would chime in and maybe inspire some more investigation into this potential bug.

Mehr · 10/10/09, 11:02 AM

Hello. I recently got the Blackhorn bludgeon (232) drop and I tried to look it up in Aldriana's spreadhseet, but it seems it is not listed there at all. I tried using the next closest mace weapon for comparison ,regemmed my character and switched to mace spec with 671 ArPen (both from gems and items). This along with the 4 T8 set bonus summ up to a DPS lower than the DPS the spreadsheet calculates for my old spec (5/5 CQC) and MH (Calamity's Grasp).Now, how can that be? The spreadsheet also states there is no sustainable dps-cycle with the Mace spec/mace MH setup.

• Aldriana · 10/10/09, 11:09 AM

The fact that you're seeing "no sustainable cycle" means you're using 1.2, which means, among other things, you don't have the ArPen nerf included, nor support for eviscerate-only cycles. These are probably closely related to the issues you're seeing. Try it again in 1.3 beta 4, and see if you get more sensible results.

That said: there's no particular reason why using a 232 mace will be better than 226 fist; with the right OH, you may, but given the scarcity of good Mace OHs it's by no means certain that it will be an upgrade.