I'm wondering if this change means that the extra attacks from Blade Flurry can still proc poisons.

Pretty sure those are considered yellow attacks of ours. The yellow attacks from Manifest Anger can still proc poisons, so I assume BF can as well.

My problem with this theory is this parse, taken early yesterday afternoon (i.e., after confirmation of the Tiny Abom nerf was found). Weapons are 1.8/1.5 with DP on the fast weapon. Observed proc volume makes sense only if it's still proccing off poisons.

[Discarded Bag of Entrails] shows 8 agility as set bonus in both Mutilate and Combat sheets. Actual bonus is 8 armor pen. I would think the same applies to the heroic version.

Ok this is gonna be my first post so hopefully I don't screw this up. I have been noticing a weird behavior with the new mutilate sheet. I am running Heartpierce and Steel Bladebreaker for my weapons but when I plug them in with heroic turned off it shows me that no weapon is better for Main hand. Now here is where the weird part comes in. When heroic ICC is turned on nothing changes on the main hand suggestions.

Could this be related to the fact that hotfixes do not hit all servers at the same time?

Has all of the previous modifications, as well as a new function, found in the Settings Sheet:
Smart Recommendation of Expertise and Hit Gems - Recommends Hit and Expertise gems if they have the highest EP and don't put you over their respective Caps. That's right, it's now intelligent!

This now replaces the old "Recommend Expertise Gems" setting.

Combat_1.4.2_Modified.xls
Mutilate_1.3.1_Modified.xls

As I was trying different setups to make a decision on which set pieces to get, I noticed something I'd never really given attention. The EP weight for attack power is missing from the liston the equipment sheet. I'm sure it is me who had missed something rather than the cell, but please tell me where can I see the current EP weight of ap in the mutilate 1.3.1sheet?

EP for attack power is necessarily 1. It is the basis used to evaluate all the other stats.
edit: clarity

To be perfectly explicit: AP is *definitionally* 1. That's how EP are defined - a ranking scheme by which 1 AP is worth 1 EP, and all other stats are compared to that baseline. Hence, since it's *always* 1, it seemed to me that there was little need to explicitly state what it was - doing so only took up valuable space on the front page of the sheet.

Edit: Additional notes: analyzing some autoattack testing performed this evening makes it pretty clear Heartpierce no longer procs off poisons, and that that log I mentioned earlier managed to be before the fix went out. I'll be working on updating accordingly, and hope to have something to post later tonight or tomorrow.

Is more parses needed for Black Bruise?

Bloodfang was by far the best helmet for me in my mut set out of the options I had accessible to me, including the T9.245. Apparently this is rare, since Aldriana left it out because he said it was worse than the alternatives. However, it's not so hard to put in yourself. Just go to the gear sheet and overwrite one of the helms you won't be using, like the T8.5 helm.

On the topic of Black Bruise data, what do I need in order to get acceptable data from a raid setting? My weekly 25 is running tonight and I thought I would take the opportunity to take some data. Is there an addon that I need, or do I need to tweak some settings on my combat log, or do I just turn everything on and /combatlog?

So changing row373 to =SUM(AN369:AN370) would do for a quick fix?

Assuming that's the case it seems we're back to the situation where Twin Spike heroic outperforms Heartpierce.

Rahdik is correct. What you will see is an increase on value of ArPen, Agility, and Hit for Combat as a result. Before the AP Poison coefficient change, the sheet would likely recommend stacking AP/Haste. Now the sheet goes back to a more traditional stat ranking for Combat.

Combat 1.4.3 and Mutilate 1.3.2 posted. Mostly just the Tiny Abom and Heartpierce nerfs.

So I've been lurking the forums and using the combat spreadsheet for a while now, and I've noticed something interesting with this newest one (1.4.2) and my new pieces of gear from ICC with regard to gems.

I have tried several gem options, and so far I get the best DPS with Bright Cardinal Rubies in every slot unless it recommends Wicked Ametrine for the yellow sockets in certain gear. As of current, I have no Nightmare Tear or blue gem of any kind. I would assume this means that my metagem is not working, but for some reason adding in a Nightmare Tear actually reduces my dps. Is it really possible that 40atp is more beneficial than a Relentless Earthsiege Diamond?

If I place the Nightmare Tear in the blue socket of my Legwraps of the Broken Beast my dps doesn't change. I'm assuming that means the 12atp socket bonus plus the nightmare tear is equivalent to the 40atp ruby. So what's the deal with the Meta? I was under the impression that I should always have that meta, is it possible I dont benefit enough from it anymore? (I find that unlikely)

Or does the spreadsheet automatically make the Meta work and doesn't actually care what color gems you have in that regard? Am I just an idiot?

That is because the spreadsheet assumes you are clever enough to account for meta gem requirements and sets the meta to always active.

So, here's what I think happened.

As previously discussed on these forums, historically proc items have sucked. Recently, for various reasons (which have also been discussed) Blizzard is looking to make proc items that are actually competitive and decent. In order to do this, they've had to make procs that are significantly more powerful than anything they've done before - with Bryntroll being the frontrunner in this, but there are other examples.

What this means is that the procs they're putting on items are, well, extremely powerful. And in so doing, they uncovered the fact that some pretty strange stuff was counted as an "attack". Previously it never really mattered - if the proc is a trivial amount of damage, misestimating the observed proc rate by 50% isn't going to do much. And with buffs that have a duration - Berserking, for instance - 50% more procs is only a marginal (10-15%) increase in uptime. Plus, of course, many procs use the high proc rate low ICD model, where it really doesn't matter. But when you have no-ICD damage-type procs (Bryntroll, Tiny Abom), a 50% difference in proc rate starts to become, well, significant.

Hence, the recent proc items uncovered a sort of long-standing oddity, and forced them to fix it (specifically in regards to Bryntroll). And it changed a lot of other things as well. The question that ultimately needs to be asked is then: is this good for the game or bad for the game? And I submit that, at least from Blizzard's perspective, it's probably viewed to be a good thing. Let's face it: allowing poisons and the like to proc effects is a pretty clear balance nightmare for them - it means we get a lot more procs than would normally be expected for our weapon speed, which means if such procs are balanced to be good for us, they suck for all classes without similar advantages, and if they're balanced to be good for other classes, they're broken for us.

Basically: Blizzard has pretty much admitted that this nerf hit more effects than they were expecting. And, as such, I'm pretty sure they have been, currently are, and/or will soon be discussing the implications of this change. But the conclusion I expect them to arrive at was that this is a change that needed to be made, that it will benefit their future balance efforts to keep it in place, and that they're willing to deal with the consequences of leaving it in place - and in particular, if they decide Tiny Abom and it's ilk need buffs, they'll do so by directly buffing the trinket rather than reverting the proc bugfix. So my personal expectation is that the current proc behavior will stick, and any changes coming down the line will have less to do with proc behavior and more to do with proc rate or number of motes needed to trigger it.

(Heartpierce, I might note, may or may not even need a buff, but I'd expect to see a 4 becoming a 5 long before any other change to it).

Care to expand on the note about Heartpierce?
Currently, it seems to be some 15dps inferior to Twin Spike heroic and clearly inferior to Rib Spreader. While the latter could definitely be explained by availability, the difference to Twin Spike can't. Also, if memory serves, it was about double the current dps difference between Twin Spike and Heartpierce that caused them to double the energy gain on the proc.

I'm using the new sheets, and specifically on the Mutilate one I am seeing something odd. Maybe its just me, but I don't quite understand why it would be showing me that while I have Rib Spreader in my main hand, (H)Twin Spike shows as a 50dps increase over (H)Steel Bladebreaker. Am I doing something wrong?

I would agree that the changes made recently would stay, and Blizz would just adjusts proc rates on other items. Would be much easier for them to do that than to undo the changes and come up with an entirely different approach; which could potentially cause some more unwanted side-effects.

Good work on the spreadsheets and all the work you have put in to understand the mechanics. Too bad Blizzard just doesnt come out and tell you exactly how its programmed