Has any testing been done on Black Bruise's interaction with FoK? Is it simply as expected, capable of proccing off of all hits, and does the 9% shadow damage return from all weapon hits (i.e. both hands) on a FoK? If so, would BB not be the ideal weapon for a dedicated AoE setup (if in fact, such a thing is necessary for any forthcoming encounters in ICC - which, unless there's a substantial AE component on the Lich King fight comparable to Heroic Anub, seems unlikely)

Not sure if you were still looking for testing on Berserking, to see if it can still proc from poisons, but here's some WoL parses for last weekend and this weekend's Saurfang and Festergut kills. It seems to have a lower uptime, but could just be RNG. (Both of this weekend's kills took longer, and had fewer procs overall.)

Saurfang- Last weekend
34 Procs, 64.7% Uptime

Festergut- Last weekend
22 Procs, 69.0% Uptime

Saurfang- This weekend
27 Procs, 62.7% Uptime

Festergut- This weekend
19 Procs, 59.0% Uptime

Black Bruise can proc off Fok alone. I did a test on the aoe dummies with no poisons and no white dmg. As far as the extra aoe damage from the proc goes.. I'd say it's a bit difficult to say whether it's of extra benefit or not. You have to assume how much damage you'd be doing per fok with the extra stats.

Of course under the assumption that blizz is modeling the proc weapons to be equal or greater than stat weapons, with the idea that the proc is only up every so often, then the extra damage you gain in that short 10 second duration should benefit a great deal from aoe. I'd say it's a very good thing to test out.

One thing I noticed is that the Necrotic Touch proc seems to only be applied once per Fok, per target. So instead of seeing 8 procs on a 4 target aoe spam. You'll see 4. It looks to only proc off the main hand FoK.

edit: So I guess the question is..

Is 9% extra damage per mainhand attack per fok application worth the loss of stats from the other aoe damage you do? (Instant Poison/ Offhand fok)

Whatever the answer is I don't think it's worth the headache and certainly won't make or break an aoe fight. I'll keep using black bruise simply because I have no other alternative.

Aldriana: I recall that before the recent poison nerf that you said that you have yet to find a respectable gear set-up in which 1/3 VP and 4/5 IP isn't superior to other distributions of points. I have been playing around with the sheet, trying to get 1/3 VP and 4/5 IP to be inferior, using only 264+ gear, and I cannot. Since the nerf, have you found a gear set-up in which that distribution of points is inferior, aside from a TAJ set-up?

Re: FoK. Recall that CQC setups tend to be strong for AoE due to 1) Hack and Slash being a bit buggy in AoE situations, and 2) the dagger 1.5x damage multiplier. So sort of independent of the Black Bruise question, it's reasonable to posit that, assuming overall comparable setups, Black Bruise/Lungbreaker builds will be better for AoE than Bloodvenom/Scourgeborne builds. It's not immediately obvious to me whether the proc works for you or against you though. Regardless, it's at least plausible to me that we'll wind up in a situation where sword/axe is BIS for single-target and CQC is optimal for AoE.

That said, there aren't any relevant AoE fights in ICC yet, so I'm not sure how much that disctinction matters.

In terms of poison talents: 5/5 0/3 was better with the pre-nerf Tiny Abom; outside of that, I don't *believe* I've seen a situation where it catches up. That said: 5/5 0/3 does have advantages in rampup time, so on a short enough fight it will be superior; however, I haven't had a chance to hack at the spreadsheet and come up with estimates on the crossover times, so I can't say much more than "it's plausible to me that there are gear setups where the different is small enough that it's worth it to switch for the advantage on interrupted fights".

The new combat sheet is giving me an extra 80 arpen somewhere that I can't for the life of me figure out. I've got all my gems correct and the arpen food buff has been accounted for and there's still and extra 80 on top of that.


Food buffed I raid at 732 currently. The sheet has me at 812. Any suggestions?

Berserking uptime nerf due to proc behavior change is a non-issue for this spreadsheet, as it's modelled to only proc from white attacks and specials in the first place anyway.

For those who use my modified combat sheet, I fixed a small error in it that could show a compatibility warning when trying to save changes due to an unused reference linked to another sheet.

There are no other changes other than that.

Aldriana,
I have some technical questions for you about your spreadsheet. I'm working off of a Mac laptop, and the spreadsheet seems to be working fine in general, but I have a few questions on how to use it more effectively. Sorry if some of these have simple answers, but from what I've read in this thread, my questions haven't been answered:

1. I can't seem to make the drop-down window appear for my race selection. The windows for gear and such work perfectly, but the race selection one seems to kind of catch up on it self?
2. Is there a way to edit the item stats? I can't seem to figure out how to find the hidden cells... I'm using excel for Mac, so it might be in a different place or something, but there's a better chance I'm just blindly missing it.
3. If indeed I can edit item stats, is there an easy way to create new items for gear slots? I was kind of wanting to play around with the idea of using 2 fast weapons as combat and stacking a lot of haste, but there aren't options for fast axes in the MHEQ slot. Can I add those easily or is it not worth my effort?

Thanks, in advance,
Useful

Excel seems to have serious problems in OSX with heavy spreadsheets, I've eventually switched to Open Office in which the sheets work great.

Under Format | Sheet | Show... select Gear.

I've found the easiest way to play around with stuff like this is simply modifying the stats of en existing weapon under Gear.

Largely correct, with the additional caveat that you'll have to do some manual rewiring to support fast mainhands - it only easily handles MHs of the standard MH speeds. The calculations should largely work even with a fast MH, you'll just need to code some workarounds to actually enter them in. If you're a reasonably savvy spreadsheet user it shouldn't be a major issue, but it's definitely in the category of "if you can't figure out how to do it by looking at it, don't bother asking because you probably shouldn't be fiddling with it".

Sorry if this has been directly answered somewhere recently, but I'm not seeing it. Does the current Mut sheet have DBW as it's old version with the arp proc or it's current version with the haste proc?

Proccing DP with your faster dagger in MH is more likely than proccing IP with your slower dagger in MH. That overcomes the damage lost on Mutilate from having your slower weapon in the OH slot.

I'm getting Berserking procs back near normal it seems.

Saurfang - 81% : WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

Festergut - 83% : WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

Lady Deathwhisper - 61% : http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat...4701042#buffer

I have a question regarding fast/slow and slow/fast for Mutilate on interrupted fights.

As we all know fast/slow beats slow/fast setups. If it's just ~7 dps better. As I remember correctly this dps gain is from a little more poison procs with fast MH weapon with our finishers. But it also lowers a little bit Mutilate damage because of the OH penalty. Is this correct?

So if this is the case, wouldn't a slow/fast setup be better in an interrupted fight like Professor Putricide? Because in P1 and P2 you have to kill the Oozes and Clouds. And as these adds won't live for long for extra poisons to procs, shouldn't this be inferior to slow/fast because we hit harder with Mutilate with slow/fast weapons? I usually end up with just 1-3 envenom on the Oozes and Clouds.

As you increase the number of mutilates relative to envenom, at some point slow/fast will start pulling ahead. Assuming the target has 5 stacks of DP on it, the breakeven point is 7.14%*IP/(Ms-Mf), where IP is average IP damage, Ms is average mutilate damage (sum of both hands) with slow main hand, Mf is mutilate damage with fast mainhand. If you tend to end your damage cycle on an add with an envenom, your envenom/mutilate ratio might not change enough to make slow/fast better than fast/slow.

However if the target dies so fast that you don't even have the time to stack DP to 5 stacks, then the whole argument for fast/slow is moot, and slow/fast should perform better.

I will test tonight against the other mut rogues and see if possibly swapping mh/oh going into P3 will help. The other mut rogue and I are similarly geared and gemmed. Stat wise he does have about 1% less crit than me, but i have about 2% more haste.

My opinion is that going slow/fast in P1 & P2 will be best for swapping targets so much, and swapping weapons to fast/slow will be best for P3... in reality you could swap to f/s when you run away from PP as tear gas is about to drop for P3.

But, keep in mind, it also may depend on exactly how your guild executes the fight. We have ranged blow up the adds while he's sitting still, then the tank brings the boss to the add; so melee do not swap till we are right there... minimizing downtime of DP on teh boss and minimizing time between swapping.

EDIT: clarifying "swapping"

Just RNG, I think. My Saurfang/Festergut up times were 58.2/61.9% respectively.

S: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
F: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Any possible gain you could see from going Slow/Fast and then Fast/Slow will be completely dwarfed by standing still for 6+ seconds switching poisons.

Why would you stand still? DP still remains on the faster weapon, IP in the slower. Simply swapping them will cost a GCD you can more than afford if you're Vanishing Tear Gas to chase after him.

Exactly! There should be more than enough time to manually open you Character screen and just drag your MH to your OH, or vice versa, while you are running towards PP between P2 & P3 then just keep the weapons like that for going into P3.

As a clarification, this is doubtfully better to do during tear gas between P1 & P2 as there isnt a lot of ramp up time for DP ticks. so by the time you have the Stack, it wont matter anymore.

Or, you could use the equipment manager, stick a set with the weapons reversed on your action bar, and spend one global cooldown. There's really not much of a reason to have to manually change weapons during a fight given the options we have for automating it.