If the difference between IP/IP/Evis and IP/DP/Envenom is as small as it appears right now, then it's pretty much determined by your current gear setup and raid makeup.

If you don't have a Prot Warrior to Sunder, you can more or less assume that Envenom is going to slightly outscale it. However, if you have a Prot Warrior to Sunder, and happen to have some decent Armor Pen from other gear (Recluse/EoE neck/Grim Toll), then you may very well see an increase in IP/IP/Evis setups. Playing with your gear and setup in Aldriana's sheet is going to give you a better answer, so I'd still recommend that over anything else.

Did you try page 1 post 1?

I'm not sure if Aldriana dropped Murder for Improved Eviscerate or if he just traded Turn the Tables for it, but by doing so, the IP/IP setup is perhaps ahead of IP/DP (of course, for Naxxramas only, as Murder is clearly the superior talent). My hacked spreadsheet shows a gain of 1.4% DPS, or 76.31 DPS by taking points out of Murder and one point out of Turn the Tables for Improved Eviscerate.

I saw some chat a few pages back that was flirting with the idea of taking 3 points out of Ruthlessness and putting them into Improved Eviscerate. I'm going to look around to figure out what needs to be changed to reflect the 3.9 changes in Aldriana's spreadsheet, but in the meantime I'm kind of curious if you've tried that, Neto.

During my spreadsheet testing, I found that Ruthlessness somehow shows as a DPS loss with the current cycle modeling (in a IP/IP + Evis setup). I can even add 3pts in ruthlessness to a lv80 build (ie. lv 83 talent points) and I net a slight DPS loss. This is probably since the sheet models a 4+R/4+E (CttC) cycle, while Ruthlessness allows a rogue to slip an extra Enven/Evis in the cycle on occasion. The only portion I am unsure of is if "slipping" the extra finisher in the cycle is optimal, or if it results in a net loss of pooled energy. From experience it can be pulled of, but tightens the cycle significantly, possibly leading to loss of the cycle from time to time due to environmental variables.

So I guess my only question would be, are my assumptions correct with modeling in the spreadsheet and ruthlessness? Has anyone else seen the same results?

Spec being modeled:
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Rogue -> Talent Calculator

You can armory me for my current raid gear I found optimal (and in possesion of) for this spec. Glyphs used; Rupture, S&D and Evis. Again running IP/IP + Evis.

BTW, using this setup over traditional Mutilate (IP/DP + Enven) I gain +1.83% DPS which for me is around 100dps. And yes it does seem to value hit much higher.

One of the reasons why Ruthlesness might show up as a dps loss is because of the ip/ip setup using 5 cp finishers. Meaning with ruthlesness you get alot of wasted combo points.

I agree with that analysis, basically what I was thinking as well. 5pt finishers should be more important with Evis over Envenom due to the Envenoms poison proc buff giving more value to squeezing in extra 4pt finishers.

Copy paste from my other post, lookin forsome feedback

i've been playing around with specs recently, and found a pretty sweet Mutilate build, which bases on the dual IP/IP formula. AND it does WONDERS. Eviserate and vigor glyph is all thats needed, and another rogue or hunters making sure Poisons are up on constant rotation for bosses.
Standard mutilate build with some changes:

1. Ruthlessness is not needed. All this is good for is for the offchance you dont crit on mutilate 2-3 times in a row. I found i was overburdended with 4/5 combo points A LOT. If your stuck at 2/5, Cold Blood should be saved for those times when i need the dps and cant afford not to hit the 5/5 because you want the last eviserate before you run out or target dies. or Cold Blood + FoK.

putting it into perspective, raid buff crit chance + 15% mutilate crit. if its over 55-60%, Ruthlessnes is a waste. that means youll more often MAKE 5/5 combo points with 2xMutilate then not. recieveing an extra combo point after finisher will be a waste in most cases. Ruthlessnes was much more viable with the old mutilate spec since you somtimes needed to get that 1 point envenom off last second sometimes on the Ruthlessnes proc to refresh SnD. Or it helped to keep a tight rotation. Even then it was more of a safety tool. Thats what i see it as now, a safety tool, either way the point of this spec is to spam 2 buttons, Evis and Mutilate. very rarely i need to spam 3 mut's for 1 evis. and even if i do, the dps increase was worth it.

2. No Rupture.

3. From the savings of talent points, they go to Murder, ImpEviserate/Vigor/ and 1 Fleet Footed.

4. Dual IP on weps. i have SR/WD currently, dont have a 2nd WD to play with.

5. Massive burst damage to being fights, Vigor Glyph, 120 energy + 6 seconds of 10energy savings = heaven.
mutilate from stealth, SnD, mutilate evis. Then the standard mutilate mutilate evis, rinse repeat.

I should have recorded the numbers, i will try for next week, but Thaddius i pushed about 7.3k dps with no "Leader of the Pack" buff and no Heroism due to raid lag issues on patch day. On 25Archavon I was pushing well over 5k dps before heroism and before the stuns/jumps started to push down my dps to about 4.5. I died on Patchwerk due to random fkup, but i would have loved to see those figures.

ANYways this is just to those Mutilate testers out there, give this a try, im sure youll love it. also AMAZING for FoK on trash, i push 20-25k dps on the bigger packs in naxx. not to mention great for 2D/3D Sarth elementals and whelps.

very interesting, and yes i do concur about the ruthlessness.
If you can, try this out: no rupture, and spec to murder (Malygos, sarth dps, and which might be what we want for Ulduar in 3.1)

Why no rupture? You should have plenty of room in your cycles to use both rupture and eviscerate... even without ruthlessness.

With the Blood Spatter talent and rupture glyph , DPE Rupture >>> Evis. even without Mangle debuff

So why no rupture ?

Seems like a decent trash dps spec.
On bosses I can't see what use you would have of Vigor.