Combat and Mutilate Spreadsheets (Obsolete as of 4.0.x) - Page 128

Fearendil · 12/09/09, 9:34 AM

Thanks a lot for the 3.3 versions

Socket missing on emblems cloak in combat sheet btw .

dinesh · 12/09/09, 9:48 AM

Quick observations from someone coming from playing exclusively combat for a long time, now swapping to Muti, in case it helps others:

1) While you are building up your first mutilate set (probably starting from combat gear), make sure to go into the settings on the mutilate sheet, and turn on "allow recommendation of expertise gems". You are almost certainly going to want/need to add some, in order to both maximize your DPS and/or help with "cycle stability" (if that is still an issue). If you forget to do this, you will probably end up gemming all AP, and then having to redo 3 or 4 of them later.

2) Once you get at or near the expertise cap, you'll probably want to turn off recommending expertise, and instead turn on "score expertise as best other red stat". This to make sure new gear upgrades are scored in a useful way. If they have new, additional expertise on them (making you exceed expertise cap), this generally means you can remove one of your expertise gems and replace it with whatever is next best in the red gem genre. So you want to score expertise as if it were that next highest red stat.

3) If you're like me and considering having combat be your alternate spec (perhaps for 10 mans, when you won't have an arms warrior), just be aware of the following: the expertise cap with WeapEx (i.e. combat spec) is 82 expertise rating lower than the cap without it (i.e. Muti). So using the same gear set, you'll either be over cap in combat, or under cap in Muti. That's 2.5 Precise Dragon's Eyes if you're a JC, or about 4 Precise Cardinal Rubies if you're not.

I guess the best way around this is to try to have one or two spare/duplicate pieces with two red gem slots (or blue slots that you fill with red), so that you can gem one with expertise for muti, and one with whatever is best for combat. The chest or leg t9 pieces look like good candidates, if have extra emblems and/or thought ahead enough to get some offset tokens.

Otherwise, I have no idea - I'll probably just live with being capped as combat, hoping that I don't need to use it much, since I never wanted to roll on tokens against guildies who had a need for offset t9 pieces. It's about a 175 dps loss for me to blow 4 red gem slots on wasted expertise as combat.

chipix · 12/09/09, 10:05 AM

Since Envenom clipping is a DPS loss and since we have 2 spare points on Assassination tree (for Rupture-less rotation) would putting 1 point to Vigor and 1 to Fleet Footed a dps gain since we can pull a little bit more between envenom buffs?

turbozmike · 12/09/09, 10:22 AM

Gear corrections - I looted these last night and noticed there were pretty big differances from the sheets.

Woodin's Lucky Necklace
Has a Yellow gem with a +4 agi bonus
90 agi, 90 stam, 105ap, 69 crit, 38 hit.

Cultist's bloodsoaked spaulders (tooltip is actually correct)
Red and Yellow Sockets +6 agi bonus
112 agi, 120 stam, 145 ap, 80 crit, 64 haste

Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder
1 red 1 blue 1 yellow gemslot, 8 agi bonus
146 agi, 162 stam, 200 ap, 100 hit, exp 92

natox · 12/09/09, 10:26 AM

Another correction: Quel'Delar, Cunning of the Shadows actually has 39 ArP instead of haste.

OengusSC · 12/09/09, 10:51 AM

Easy enough to add the gems in manually, but for the sake of reporting:

Band of the Bone Colossus - Stats are correct, however it has a yellow gem slot with a +4 agility socket bonus.

Mavanas · 12/09/09, 11:41 AM

So there are now three items that now have an extra yellow socket, which means either the stats were not datamined properly or blizzard adjusted the stats in light of the problems with lack of hit and crit capping. I am guessing there will be more sockets since looking at EP values of some of the new 264 level items, the way they were reported in Sigrie, some appear much lower than others. It can mean that CQC based builds, such as fist combat and mutilate will not have a penalty due to ICC itemization.

xmod2 · 12/09/09, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by dinesh

1) While you are building up your first mutilate set (probably starting from combat gear), make sure to go into the settings on the mutilate sheet, and turn on "allow recommendation of expertise gems". You are almost certainly going to want/need to add some, in order to both maximize your DPS and/or help with "cycle stability" (if that is still an issue). If you forget to do this, you will probably end up gemming all AP, and then having to redo 3 or 4 of them later..

Continuing on this chain of thought, if you are looking to cross-purpose gear for Mutilate/Combat, you would stick with AP in your reds after expertise (in the non-swapping pieces)? Agility has a bit higher EP value on my combat sheet, and so I am wondering if gemming agility for cross-spec pieces has any benefits over straight AP.

Professor Hurt · 12/09/09, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by xmod2

Continuing on this chain of thought, if you are looking to cross-purpose gear for Mutilate/Combat, you would stick with AP in your reds after expertise (in the non-swapping pieces)? Agility has a bit higher EP value on my combat sheet, and so I am wondering if gemming agility for cross-spec pieces has any benefits over straight AP.

You're going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere, so just pick one and go with it (and use the spreadsheets if something is unclear). I chose Mutilate as my main raid spec for ToGC and therefore never gemmed for ArP. Was it optimal for combat? No. But it wasn't a huge difference and I didn't have to bother wasting guild resources on gemming/enchanting two sets of gear.

If you have two sets of gear, great. If not, pick a main spec, spreadsheet/gem/enchant for it, and make your offspec work the best it can.

dinesh · 12/09/09, 3:01 PM

In my specific case, with my current gear, AP is better than Agi for Mutilate, which I am guessing/hoping will be my "main spec" in ICC. Each 40AP gem is worth ~3 EP more than a 20 Agi gem.

On the flip side, with the same gear in combat spec, AP is actually still spreadsheeted as being better than Agi, by ~1.5 EP. Even if it were not, as long as the loss was on par with what the gain is for Mutilate, I would probably still stick with AP over Agi.

For you, you should do whatever your specific gear set tells you to do.

Tinmazter · 12/09/09, 5:05 PM

Not sure if it had been posted yet but the bracers dropped from Saurfang normal have a yellow socket and a 4 agi+ socket bonus.

Bracers are Toskk's Maximized Wristguards

Ingame stats:

291 Armor
90 Agility
90 Stamina
Yellow socket
Socket Bonus: +4 Agility
Item Level 264
Equip: Increases attack power by 105.
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 52.
Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 60.

• Aldriana · 12/09/09, 5:37 PM

Thanks to those who have reported item bugs; you may now stop doing so. The armory has most if not all of the new gear in it, so I'm in the process of inputting all the gear from it. I'm going to have to guess at some of the socket bonuses - and I'll be making a list of the ones I need, so please don't just post random ones in the hope that I need them.

At this point, pretty much the only thing needed is proc rate testing - note I say testing, not anecdotes. If you want to provide combat logs or formalized results of the form "I had X attacks and got Y procs, and there didn't appear to be an internal cooldown" - great. But if you're just going to say "it procced a lot" or "it had about 40% uptime for me" or whatever - that's not helpful.

Malekar · 12/09/09, 5:59 PM

Not sure if this is a product of gear/gem combo or something with the spreadsheet but after someone else posted it on the WoW Rogue forums I thought I might ask here. I've switched everything to AP Gems and 20/51/0 Evis only spec. I noticed that if I replace the Evis glyph with Rupture, remove Imp Evis and add back Blood Spatter and the missing Ruthlessness point I see a ~50 dps improvement on the sheet. Like I said, I blew it off to a possible incorrect setting on my part but after someone else posted I thought it could be a spreadsheet bug. Thanks for the help.

Nerio · 12/09/09, 6:43 PM

Tested Heartpierce for a bit. 33 minutes of auto attacking on a dummy, 0 haste.

Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Definitely can refresh itself, and there are no notable patterns in its proccing. It had about a 4.5% proc rate.

Moshox · 12/09/09, 6:48 PM

I played combat for a long time, so I'm very happy about the new 3.3 muti spreadsheet, because i can change my combat gear (in this case: Thank you Aldriana^^).

I've already read the FAQ for this:

Q: Why Fleet Footed, then?
A: Run speed is handy. And since the preferred cycle is Envenom-only, you don't need Blood Spatter, so there really isn't anything in the way of DPS talents to take. The main reason I'd consider doing otherwise is if you mostly run 10 mans and below where you don't have anyone to keep up bleeds for you for purposes of HFB. In this case, I can see sticking with Blood Spatter.

But I want to keep Rupture in my Rota, because Spreadsheet tells me and i think its important to set HfB up. but I dont understand, how to integrate Rupture in the Muti "rota". And there are no details for this.

Maybe someone can tell me or Aldriana put it in the Spreadsheet, like it is in the Combat sheet.

Excause my bad english =/