Do the sheets still assume you have night elf base stats + a draenei in your group?

Thank you for a nice spreadsheet! I'm trying to figure out how to use it with rather limited knowledge in such. :P

I have a few newb questions, and I'm sorry if the answer is somewhere already and I missed it.
(Please point me towards it if I did.)

1. How do I add trinkets with procs, if they are not listed among those in the spreadsheet?

2. How do I add which metagem I am using? Does it automatically assume one in particular?

3. How do I add a weapon with 1,3 weapon speed? (LPC) Can I just change one of the others from say 1,4 to 1,3?

4. Does the spreadsheet take socket bonuses into account when suggesting gems and calculating the dps?

Once again, sorry for the newbieness... but got to start somewhere, eh? *s*

1&3. Sadly you can't -- the calculations for trinkets and weapon speed are hardcoded into the spreadsheet (and just don't exist for 1.3 speed OHs). If you're an EJ newbie but an an excel pro you can probably figure out from the Calcs tab how he's doing it and add new columns for it yourself, but that's what would be required. Later spreadsheets (like Vulajin's when it's updated) will likely prove to be much more helpful given your current level of gear. Soon, we hope!

2. You should be using a Relentless Earthsiege Diamond regardless of spec, it's just better than anything else available.

4. Yes, if you look at the stats listed for each piece of gear, the socket bonuses are already included under the base stats -- the spreadsheet simply assumes that you'll have the right gems to meet the requirements. This assumption is pretty reasonable if you're a JC due to the extra available gems, but if you're not and gem only for straight DPS you might want to make a few changes to the stats listed for the gear. That being said, socket bonuses are nice and all, but their overall impact on DPS is pretty minimal, so "I wouldn't worry about it too much" is probably also pretty reasonable.

Yay for awesome answers!

I'm no pro at excel yet, but practice makes perfect. *s*

I'll see if I can figure it out, otherwise I'll wait for Vulajin's update.

I am using the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond, but since I couldn't see it among the list of gems I got unsure if it was included or not.

Thanks for the help!

Is Armor Pen overrated in the current spreadsheet version?

Well, GC's post gives a nice idea of how AP works, so probably some corrections regarding that will be needed in the sheet?
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> 116% Armor Pen only giving 66%!?!?!?!

I think there is a problem with deadly poisons in combat sheet: putting points in imp poisons result in a loss of dps and loss of DP dps...
I didnt have time to understand the sheet totally but i saw a 0.3-0.02*imp poison, i guess if that refers to the chance to apply DP that could be a typo for a +, correct me if i am wrong.

Adding new weapon speeds to the sheet may be a problem but for those wanting to add other weaps with existing speeds you can insert new rows by copying an entire row and inserting it in the middle of the other weapons. Then it's just a matter of renaming it and changing it's stats.

Combatant's Bootblade dropped today from Thorim (Hard mode) and Kingsbane from Yogg 10man.

Just searched the thread for it, but couldn't find anything related.
Could you please add Hyperspeed Accelerators and Hand-mounted Pyro Rocket enchant for your next build?

I added Hyperspeed Accelerators assuming as a 56,67 haste enchant. Because i'm not familliar to spreadsheets, i don't know if my numers are correct.

Good catch. If you're using Improved Poisons with Eviscerate (and not Envenom), the current sheet will give wrong answers - although, as Improved Poisons doesn't do much unless you *are* using Envenom, I'm not sure how much this matters. If you want to fix it yourself, change the minus sign in the 0.3-0.02*ImprovedPoisons term of row 186 to a plus sign. It'll be fixed in the next release.

I'm curious about the Trinkets, so why is Grim Toll better than FotfF which grants 320 AP all the time. My Posions scale with AP but not with ArP. So AP affect my howl FMG, and not just my WHite und Style Hits.

But the Spreadsheet tells Grim Toll is better. And I just cant figure out why.

Can someone maybe explain it why?

Xaoc, I don't know your playstyle or where you're pulling those numbers but on regular fights, I've never had white melee damage amount to 55% of my damage as Mutilate. On average, it's around 35%. Also, my poison damage generally hovers between 26-30% so I don't really see how you can't consider that a large part of your DPS.

Obviously for combat it's different as things like your increased white damage and eviscerate are affected by armor, although I don't know if it's been resolved whether your 2nd finisher is eviscerate or envenom. If you're referring to Mut Minka, Aldriana's spreadsheets puts FotFF ahead of Grim Toll, at least for my gear set which is standard t7. If you're referring to Vulajin's edited spreadsheets, you're in the wrong thread.

There seems to be a problem that the EP values do not match the DPS you get. For example the EP value (in the mutilate sheet) say that agility is worth 1.98 and AP is worth 1. So if I use 32 ap gems instead of 16 agility my dps should increase but it is the opposite.. I loose around 0.2 dps for every 32 ap gem.

Xaoc never said white melee damage. He said physical damage, which would include mutilate itself.

Hm okay, dont thought that ArP incrases white dps so much that it will beet FotfF. And why is the Spreadsheet telling Agi > AP? Can someone exlain this aswell pls ?

It's not just white dps. ArP affects all physical damage, including Sinister Strike, Rupture, Eviscerate and so on (I'm hazarding a guess that you are Combat).

Your second question is pretty difficult to answer without knowing what variables you were using in the sheet. If it was best in slot T8 stuff, it's no surprise that agility is the superior stat given the four-piece set bonus.

No single stat is automatically better than another stat to such a degree that it's mere presence or absence will define an item as good or bad. It's the amount of the stat and it's impact on your DPS that matters.

I.E. Agi > AP with 4 set T8 because of critting ruptures, but Grim Toll (or, more accurately, now that it's been discovered, the Mjollnir Runestone) is BIS as a trinket because having that much ArP at once as a proc will do more for your Sinister Strike/Eviscerate/White damage, than having say, the pyrite infusers 1200 AP proc, will do for those sources of damage + your ruptures and poisons.

Like Raiid said, yes I never said simply White damage. Depending on the fight, your white damage will range from 30-40%, and your mutilates will fluctuate between 15-25%. For combat, its an obvious truth that Grim Toll is far more effective than FoFF. You can make the argument that because Mut has a much larger portion of their damage from poisons, that FoFF is better than Grim Toll, and I'm sure a lot of people would agree with you. But with the recent buff to ArP, you'd be out of your mind to swap out Grim Toll for FoFF.

Ah ok, I mis-interpreted what you meant, my mistake. I still don't see where you can make the claim that you'd be out of your mind considering it's already modeled on the spreadsheets of this thread that FotFF is still better than Grim Toll for a Mutilate rogue. Granted there could be errors but where are you getting the basis to make this point aside from the knowledge that arpen rating got buffed in 3.1?

So I realize that Daschal's Bite is a slow 1.8 but if I'm combat and currently using CG/HS would this be a step backwards using it in my OH?

This is my first time posting here and just wanted to thank all the people for the endless hours it must take to prepare tese sheets.

I just started using these sheets a few weeks ago and have become quickly hooked. I feel lost without tem now. The problem is that I have mostly 10-man Naxx gear and the "Boots of Neverending Path" for the 66 hit rating. The last sheet with the drop down windows had many more gear options. I understand how long it must take to prepare such a complex sheet, but was wondering if this new sheet will evolve into a similar version as the last? I know I am behind most raiders and if I just need to wait till my gear gets better to make full use of the sheet that's fine, but just wanting to know so I can check back often before my gear gets better or just wait.

Again thank you very much for offering those of us who are far more uneducated in these things a chance to feel smart...lol

SR/SR or SR/WD has been a topic of discussion for 3.1. It has been concluded that they may be very close, and that WD is the superior off-hand for mutilate builds. After running my gear in the mutilate spreadsheet I have come to the following conclusion. SR appears to be equal and/or slightly better only if Master Poisoner is spec'd into. However, if Turn the tables is spec'd into the WD off-hand comes out the winner. This is my personal observation on my personal gear. You all may or may not see similar results.

It has also been suggested that some may need to drop a point out of Precision and put 1 point into Improved Slice and Dice to maintain cycle stability (after replacing the SnD glyph with the HfB glyph). I submit to you that this is not needed if Master Poisoner is taken. Deadly poison stacks come back so quickly with Master Poisoner that it is much easier to maintain your rotations and to keep Slice and Dice up. The question becomes if WD is used as an off hand and Turn the Tables is spec'd into, will WD apply deadly poison fast enough to maintain your cycle without dropping a point out of Precision for Improved Slice and Dice? Please shed some light on this one for those who may be running WD off hand, no SnD glyph, and spec'd Turn the Tables. Do you see that you are dropping SnD a lot?

If you are having to spec 1 point into Improved SnD and lose 1 point in Precision, then the loss from this may trump using Turn the Tables at all, and Master Poisoner would become the superior talent. I know it all comes down to using the spreadsheet, but I want to see if the community is seeing similar results with similar gear and talent choices.

I also ran my gear through the Combat sheet with CG/WD and the SnD, Rupture, and SS glyphs Combat still came out slightly lower than the above mutilate spec with SR/SR 51/13/7 with Master Poisoner. Combat only got the edge with the Killing Spree Glyph selected. Amazing that the glyph is this good. Again these are my personal observations after using both spreadsheets. I bring these findings to the forums only to see if others are seeing and/or experiencing similar results. Thank you.