Combat and Mutilate Spreadsheets (Obsolete as of 4.0.x) - Page 138

Banedon · 12/16/09, 8:50 AM

I hope I didn't just miss this answer somewhere...

If heartpierce causes a 1PPM on both weapons, is there any added value in dual wielding two of them, since they aren't marked as unique?

Sanosu · 12/16/09, 8:56 AM

Originally Posted by Banedon

I hope I didn't just miss this answer somewhere...

If heartpierce causes a 1PPM on both weapons, is there any added value in dual wielding two of them, since they aren't marked as unique?

Considering how poorly a 1.8 speed offhand would perform in regards to Deadly Poison-triggered Instant Poison procs being % based, and the significant loss of Focused Attacks procs, coupled with the fact that the Heartpierce proc isn't that spectacular to begin with, and I can't imagine why you would ever want to do this.

Nightbliss · 12/16/09, 10:27 AM

Any special reason why is Needle-Encrusted Scorpion showing as a DPS downgrade from Mjolnir Runestone or am I missing something.

Feist-Mok · 12/16/09, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Nightbliss

Any special reason why is Needle-Encrusted Scorpion showing as a DPS downgrade from Mjolnir Runestone or am I missing something.

Lower uptime.

Rerox · 12/16/09, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by Nightbliss

Any special reason why is Needle-Encrusted Scorpion showing as a DPS downgrade from Mjolnir Runestone or am I missing something.

Lower Procrate, and "chance on crit" instead of "chance on hit".

dinesh · 12/16/09, 4:52 PM

On the Mutilate 1.2 sheet, "Aldriana's Gloves of Secrecy" (non-heroic) are misspelled (missing an 's'). Also, the Herkuml War Token has an extra 's'.

Also, on the up and coming Mutilate sheet, would it be possible to get the same "Hysterias per fight" option and calculations included, similar to what was implemened in the Combat sheet?

Feist-Mok · 12/16/09, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by dinesh

On the Mutilate 1.2 sheet, "Aldriana's Gloves of Secrecy" (non-heroic) are misspelled (missing an 's'). Also, the Herkuml War Token has an extra 's'.

Also, on the up and coming Mutilate sheet, would it be possible to get the same "Hysterias per fight" option and calculations included, similar to what was implemened in the Combat sheet?

In all honesty, for a mutilate rogue, if the answer is anything other than '0', youlre probably doing something wrong from a raid DPS standpoint.

• Aldriana · 12/16/09, 5:18 PM

In 25s, that's certainly true. In 10s... it's not completely unreasonable that you might be in a run with a blood DK and 3 casters. But it's decidedly of limited use, which is why it's not in the sheet already. That said, it is pretty easy to add, so I may include it anyway.

Shaker · 12/16/09, 6:07 PM

Well, I think in almost all cases the Blood DK is better off casting it on themself rather than a Mutilate rogue. The -only- reason I could think that this is not the case is if you're really super concerned about the non-stacking nature of tricks/hysteria. Even in this case I'd say during the Blood DK's Hysteria (cast on himself) you should just tricks another DPS though.

saedo · 12/16/09, 6:13 PM

Slight aside, if factors for 10 mans are considered being added, is there a chance of expose armor making it in?

Edit: To not make a new useless post... Sorry, my memory must have played tricks on me and thought you did have it before. Anyways, it was a bit more of how it'd effect dps to weave Expose in. Like later posts, sometimes, just don't have a warrior around.

• Aldriana · 12/16/09, 6:25 PM

Originally Posted by Shaker

Well, I think in almost all cases the Blood DK is better off casting it on themself rather than a Mutilate rogue. The -only- reason I could think that this is not the case is if you're really super concerned about the non-stacking nature of tricks/hysteria. Even in this case I'd say during the Blod DK's Hysteria (cast on himself) you should just tricks another DPS though.

Oh, right, Hysteria is one of those buffs that those silly DKs can cast on themselves. So yeah, there's absolutely no reason to ever case Hysteria on a Mut rogue, so I'm leaning against adding it.

Originally Posted by saedo

Slight aside, if factors for 10 mans are considered being added, is there a chance of expose armor making a return?

As always, if there's no warrior and more physical DPSers there than just you, you probably want to be exposing. Other than that... uh... what do you mean by "making a return"?

Shaker · 12/16/09, 6:28 PM

I think he means stat weights when taking into account Expose Armor being added to your rotation, which is basically converting some of your eviscerates into 'nothing' - with less Eviscerate damage you're looking at a small drop in the value of ArPen/Agi as your damage shifts ever so slightly more in favor of poisons, but the difference is probably pretty small.

Edit: I should say the changes in EP weightings is pretty small - obviously it's a change in DPS, but that's not really interesting sheet-wise.

• Aldriana · 12/16/09, 6:35 PM

Well, right. Except I've *never* actually modeled that, so the term "return" was confusing me.

Regardless: I *can* say that if it needs to be kept up, a Combat rogue will always, always, always be the better choice. An eviscerate for combat is far less important than an Envenom for Mutilate.

That said: I really don't have any plans to worry about it, as 25 main raids almost always have a source of sunders, and I personally can't make myself care enough about 10man raiding to optimize specifically for it. So, my apologies to those of you who're trying to optimize for 10mans only, but I seriously doubt I will ever have the time or motivation to worry about weaving Expose in.

dinesh · 12/16/09, 7:16 PM

Heh, my 10 man is heavily weighted towards casters, unfortunately, and on rare occasion is it just me and the DK tank. Having said that, I think he has been giving Hysterias to me out of habit, so I just wanted to see how much I was gaining. No problem on not including it.

re: the EA discussion, I will say that my guild, a middling guild on my server, ran without a warrior of any kind in our 25 mans for all of ToC, so a rogue always had to EA. In the brave new world of class interoperability, I am sure we are not alone, though assuredly that would be a minority case. Obviously, your time and leanings are yours to do with as you wish, but I thought I would at least raise my hand and say it's not a sure thing to have a warrior in a moderately progressed guild, even in 25 man.

Speaker · 12/16/09, 11:40 PM

The Heroic Version of the Ivory-Inlaid Leggings are not labeled (Heroic) by default, although I may have screwed up my sheet while I was adding gear.