Combat and Mutilate Spreadsheets (Obsolete as of 4.0.x) - Page 14

advanced · 02/18/09, 4:21 AM

I tried the 3/3 Improved Eviscerate on monday only to notice a slight loss in DPS throughout most of Naxx, when i switched back to IP/DP i noticed an increase of about 150-200 DPS with the Envenom model, could this be because i'm using dual Murder as opposed to WD which hasn't dropped for us yet but would .1 speed make that much of a difference?

I also picked up a Grim Toll, could the 40% armor ignore work better with IP/IP Eviscerate as opposed to IP/DP Envenom

Grunge · 02/19/09, 4:53 AM

Originally Posted by Fusive

I've more or less got the same numbers. Dropping Ruthlessness instead of 2/2 Murder and 1 point in TtT was a higher increase. Neto some said something about Vulajin's SS not recognizing a build/rotation without Ruthlessness, so take that however you will..

As much as I wanted to go a good WWS parse to compare last week's run using IP/DP/Envenom to this week's IP/IP/Evis, I can't. Decided at the last minute to do Less Is More, so as you can guess the DPS comparison would have been really messed up. Maybe next week I'll have something to go with.

Err, What other talents are you taking?
I already have 2/2 Murder and 3/3 TTT, so it's a choice between 3/3 Imp Evisc vs Filler talents like QR and FF.
So far on Sartharion-3D I noticed somewhat of a increase in dps, Malygos was as usual not all that great as melee.
Hopefully I can get a WWS from Naxx25 today.

Originally Posted by advanced

I tried the 3/3 Improved Eviscerate on monday only to notice a slight loss in DPS throughout most of Naxx, when i switched back to IP/DP i noticed an increase of about 150-200 DPS with the Envenom model, could this be because i'm using dual Murder as opposed to WD which hasn't dropped for us yet but would .1 speed make that much of a difference?

I also picked up a Grim Toll, could the 40% armor ignore work better with IP/IP Eviscerate as opposed to IP/DP Envenom

I doubt it's a issue with double Murder, since I use the same setup and saw only increase in DPS.
Most likely it's do to gear differences, but since you're have PvP gear on Armory, can't be sure.

As for me, with my current gear and BiS, IP/IP reigns supreme over IP/DP according to Vulajin's latest sheet.

Grim Toll has been superior for me only on cases where I've been below poison hit cap. Once you have enough hit from gear, Mirror of Truth should become better.
About the armor penetration, it's still somewhat useless due to the same reasons as before.
It's applied post raid-debuffs.
3.1 might change ArP, in which case Grim Toll might become very desirable (perhaps even superior to Mirror of Truth).
Until we know sure, pick one up just in case.

cyrusz · 02/19/09, 6:58 AM

I tested serveral Daggers on the Spreadsheet 0.4.7:
Before i used WD-IP MH and Twilight Mist-DP OH

I have only 1 WD, so i was searching for an fast OH dagger.

The result was, that the Papercutter is the best OH Dagger until i get the second WD using IP/IP.

Someone get similiar results?

theldaran · 02/19/09, 8:47 AM

Just one note, I haven't posted in a while but have kept reading on the forums and am glad to see that IP/IP has finally started to become a style that was put into practice by the rogue community. When I originally proposed it I could not imagine that ruthlessness being taken out of the spec was actually an increase in dps, I believe I sent one lone PM to Aldriana asking if he had a particularly accurate way of modeling it, but other than that pretty much dropped the idea. I tend to believe that only having to mutilate once for a 4 point finisher vs. having to mutilate twice for only one point higher, ruthlessness should pull out ahead. I will test it tommorow night in naxx however, and am looking foward very much to the results.

Vanadi · 02/19/09, 5:21 PM

Went for an ip/ip eviscerate setup tonight in naxx 25. Rotations are extremely tight. Dps on patch could be a bit higher because I was missing things like savage combat 3% raidcrit and let HfB and SnD drop once. Still seems like a very viable spec though although the normal envenom setup does allow for alot more slack.

Patchwerk parse, can post a parse of the full run on request.
Wow Web Stats

Zeratfule · 02/19/09, 5:39 PM

Hey Van I just looked you up on armory, when you ran dual IP were you using Sinister Revenge in your MH? your armory shows you as having that equipped so I wasn't sure.

Vanadi · 02/19/09, 5:40 PM

No I was using dualwield WB. I only use sinister's for farming/trash and heroics.

Zeratfule · 02/19/09, 5:42 PM

Ah, okay thank you.

Danzir · 02/19/09, 6:50 PM

Originally Posted by Vanadi

Went for an ip/ip eviscerate setup tonight in naxx 25. Rotations are extremely tight. Dps on patch could be a bit higher because I was missing things like savage combat 3% raidcrit and let HfB and SnD drop once. Still seems like a very viable spec though although the normal envenom setup does allow for alot more slack.

Patchwerk parse, can post a parse of the full run on request.
Wow Web Stats

what do you normally pull given the absence of those same buffs? In other words, do you see this setup as not only viable, but better than standard mut?

Neto- · 02/19/09, 6:56 PM

There has been enough talk of IP/IP/Eviscerate for some time now and it is undoubtedly better than the regular Mutilate for Naxxramas fights, as they have a short fight duration and Bloodlust uptime benefits IPIPEvis more than IPDPEnvenom. I've been running with it for at least 2 weeks before the 3.0.9 patch and have always seen higher numbers with it, despite not having a second Webbed Death, both in-game and in the spreadsheet (after modifying it accordingly).

blbrchnk · 02/20/09, 6:53 AM

Originally Posted by cyrusz

I tested serveral Daggers on the Spreadsheet 0.4.7:
Before i used WD-IP MH and Twilight Mist-DP OH

I have only 1 WD, so i was searching for an fast OH dagger.

The result was, that the Papercutter is the best OH Dagger until i get the second WD using IP/IP.

Someone get similiar results?

I did before I had WD. I had Murder MH and the best OH I could use was LPC. Now I have Murder MH/WD OH. Figured that they'd be the other way around, but that is what the spreadsheet tells me to do.

RookieWan · 02/20/09, 6:59 AM

I was wondering, is there a break even point where in classic mutilate build the white damage from a slower MH is overtaken bij the IP damage from a fast MH?

I'm in a casual raiding guild, so I haven't got access to WD or Murder (yet), but I'm currently using a Titansteel Shanker as MH and LPC as OH. I have a 2nd LPC in the bank.
I tried VH hc with two LPCs equipped, but Recount showed a decrease in DPS compared to my usual TS MH, LPC OH.
I havent had time to try dual LPC (which seems to be regarded as a viable alternative to dual WD) in a raid yet, maybe tonight I will give it a try. Because the fights in hc's are over much quicker, I was wondering if there's a break even point after which the dual lpc will gain me more dps, which would explain the lower dps.

blbrchnk · 02/20/09, 8:18 AM

Originally Posted by RookieWan

I was wondering, is there a break even point where in classic mutilate build the white damage from a slower MH is overtaken bij the IP damage from a fast MH?

I'm in a casual raiding guild, so I haven't got access to WD or Murder (yet), but I'm currently using a Titansteel Shanker as MH and LPC as OH. I have a 2nd LPC in the bank.
I tried VH hc with two LPCs equipped, but Recount showed a decrease in DPS compared to my usual TS MH, LPC OH.
I havent had time to try dual LPC (which seems to be regarded as a viable alternative to dual WD) in a raid yet, maybe tonight I will give it a try. Because the fights in hc's are over much quicker, I was wondering if there's a break even point after which the dual lpc will gain me more dps, which would explain the lower dps.

Check the spreadsheet.

RookieWan · 02/20/09, 9:06 AM

Originally Posted by blbrchnk

Check the spreadsheet.

Thanks I will.

//edit

gramer · 02/20/09, 9:15 AM

Here is WebStats for Patchwork last night, WD IP + Murder IP, build with ruthlessness, though I forgot to switch 2 points from Murder to Turn the Tables since Maly fight. I still miss few items and I had no 2nd set bonus

Double IP + Evis feels easier to manage than IP/DP + Envenom, you dont have to watch your poison stack and cycle is shorter from what i feel, so its easier to keep HfB/SnD/Rupture up. I do one mutilate between finishers most of the time and 2-4 evis between ruptures.