Combat and Mutilate Spreadsheets (Obsolete as of 4.0.x) - Page 167

Mavanas · 01/13/10, 4:20 PM

Perhaps the spreadsheet still accounts for TAJ procs from poisons and berserking enchant which has been changed. Based on the Festergut parse above, counting autoattacks, envenoms and mutilates, there were 840 attacks that procced 411 motes and manifest. So the proc rate was 48.9% (45.5%, 52.4%), which is in line with our current understanding.

• Aldriana · 01/13/10, 4:47 PM

I haven't posted an updated spreadsheet since the proc behavior changes. This mostly affects Tiny Abom, but possibly a few other things as well.

Berserking/Mongoose: It occurs to me that we never really studied what could and couldn't proc these; we, (or at least, I) always sort of assumed it was autoattacks plus all strikes. Which, as near as I can tell, is what it's doing now. So... either nothing has changed, or I had it modeled incorrectly before due to it having procced off weird stuff like poisons. In either event, I'm happy with the model in the spreadsheet for the moment.

Heartpierce: It really feels like something is going on here, but I can't for the life of me figure out what. From autoattack testing logs it appears to still proc off both weapons and poisons and everything else you'd expect... but looking at some Saurfang and Festergut type parses, I find examples where there's only 1/3 as many procs as I'd expect. So it does feel like something has happened there, but the data is inconsistent so I can't really comment on how it's working at this stage.

Mavanas · 01/13/10, 4:52 PM

Originally Posted by Zerix

I can't say I've observed the same proc rates, I still have a 71.3% uptime on Invigoration on tonight's Saurfang along with 68.5% Berserk uptime.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

(Excuse some of the low numbers in this parse, the primetime raid lag on Mal'Ganis is absolutely atrocious on Tuesdays)

In this parse, there were 28 procs of invigorate. If poisons, autoattacks and special attacks can proc it, there were 531 MH attacks and 881 OH attacks, which should give you on average 36 procs. This is certainly higher than what was observed, however the sample size is so low that anything between 20 and 53 procs falls within 95% confidence interval. We need a longer parse to tell what is going on.

• Aldriana · 01/13/10, 5:01 PM

What's concerning me about Invigoration is that there seem to be quite a few parses where it's "a little low", and then the occasional one like this where you'd normally expect close to 30 procs and only get 10. So it feels like something is not behaving the way we expect... but I'm having a hard time figuring out what that might be.

Torael_7 · 01/13/10, 5:04 PM

On the topic of Heartpierce, my understanding is that the buff refreshing itself can result in lost ticks. Does this mean that you don't get your first tick the instant the buff refreshes, but rather it comes after two seconds?

sp00n · 01/13/10, 5:13 PM

Heartpierce still procs from both weapons and still procs from specials.
Currently testing with Warglaive MH and Heartpierce OH, IP on the main hand, special attacks only.

Anybody knows if a double proc would be theoretical possible? From SS + IP (assuming Invigoration procs of poisons from specials). Or is there some kind of short ICD?

Mavanas · 01/13/10, 5:31 PM

No ICD has been reported so far. I assume it can double proc with probability of about 0.2% with 2.7 speed weapon.

mdn · 01/13/10, 7:12 PM

I spent a couple hours hitting a target dummy today, both with and without poisons to test affects of poison on Berserking and Heartpierce.

Without poisons: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Berserk uptime: 32.7%
Invigoration uptime: 22.5%

With poisons: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Berserk uptime: 33.0%
Invigoration uptime: 24.4%

While not huge samples, both parses are over about ~45-50 minutes each, completely naked outside of [Heartpierce] mainhand and [Stygian Bladebreaker] offhand and only auto-attacking. This would seem to suggest that [Heartpierce] is not working fine with auto-attack poisons.

Mavanas · 01/13/10, 7:25 PM

First log: 1369 MH attacks, 1760 OH attacks. Expect 82 procs, observed 75.
Second log: 1918 MH attacks, 3630 OH attacks (if poisons were working as before). Expect 142 procs, observed 89. If poisons do not proc invigoration, you would expect 84 procs, in line with 89 actual procs.

I'd say this pretty much shows poisons do not proc invigoration anymore, which is sad for the item's value, but fair given the tooltip description. I'd think given the recent intentions of devs to improve the value of proc items (2-4 energy change), this bug nerf necessitates another proc value increase.

Speaker · 01/13/10, 7:42 PM

I'm pretty sure the change that they have done is that procs from weapon swings can not also do any type of proc. So poisons being a proc can no longer proc trinkets, weapons, or anything else, and TAJ being a proc cannot proc abilities like berserking or poisons. Only the initial hit can now proc things like poisons, berserking, and trinkets, and other effects. At least that's what I've been able to come up with.

Though, Hack and Slash procs still have a chance to proc poisons, although that may be due to the fact that it is just an additional swing.

Eyeheartpie · 01/13/10, 8:05 PM

I'm wondering if this change means that the extra attacks from Blade Flurry can still proc poisons.

Chugbleach · 01/13/10, 8:16 PM

Originally Posted by Eyeheartpie

I'm wondering if this change means that the extra attacks from Blade Flurry can still proc poisons.

Pretty sure those are considered yellow attacks of ours. The yellow attacks from Manifest Anger can still proc poisons, so I assume BF can as well.

• Aldriana · 01/13/10, 8:50 PM

Originally Posted by Mavanas

First log: 1369 MH attacks, 1760 OH attacks. Expect 82 procs, observed 75.
Second log: 1918 MH attacks, 3630 OH attacks (if poisons were working as before). Expect 142 procs, observed 89. If poisons do not proc invigoration, you would expect 84 procs, in line with 89 actual procs.

I'd say this pretty much shows poisons do not proc invigoration anymore, which is sad for the item's value, but fair given the tooltip description. I'd think given the recent intentions of devs to improve the value of proc items (2-4 energy change), this bug nerf necessitates another proc value increase.

My problem with this theory is this parse, taken early yesterday afternoon (i.e., after confirmation of the Tiny Abom nerf was found). Weapons are 1.8/1.5 with DP on the fast weapon. Observed proc volume makes sense only if it's still proccing off poisons.

Lure · 01/13/10, 8:58 PM

[Discarded Bag of Entrails] shows 8 agility as set bonus in both Mutilate and Combat sheets. Actual bonus is 8 armor pen. I would think the same applies to the heroic version.

jkaylor · 01/13/10, 10:53 PM

Ok this is gonna be my first post so hopefully I don't screw this up. I have been noticing a weird behavior with the new mutilate sheet. I am running Heartpierce and Steel Bladebreaker for my weapons but when I plug them in with heroic turned off it shows me that no weapon is better for Main hand. Now here is where the weird part comes in. When heroic ICC is turned on nothing changes on the main hand suggestions.