Minor Error
Enchant Ring - Striking is only applied once if you select it, but you can enchant both of your rings with 32AP each. Currently it's only adding 32AP if you select it.

Did you try replacing the 1 with a 2? If that doesn't work, just make an identical line of the enchant under it.

I guess i am rather nitpicky there or have a differente understanding of "how it should work".

Why should you only enchant 1 ring. So far i understood the boxes to be a "1 = in use" so it would be more intuitive to make the ring enchant just add 64ap if you select it instead having to say "Yes i am not an idiot i really enchanted both of my rings so i select 2"

But we shouldnt argue about the design.

These are merely math values not boolean values so you can put 2 in them. I do the same with gems simply cause I've run out of space in the room given.

Well you could just insert a line above the "add gems above this line"

Like I said. I ran out of room. There's enough lines for 11 gems. I now use 12 gems.

Edit: I suppose this could turn into a request. Add more lines for gems please.

Edit2: With my current gear and gear available, I could see myself using up to 17 slots (add 1 for each weapon, wrist, legs, belt). Maybe 1 more if there's a piece I'm forgetting that could add more sockets. 2 more even if BS is thrown in as an option. So possibly up to 20 slots for gems given the right combo.

I calculated uptimes of GT and MR using simulation for my own purposes, assuming 45 second cooldown, 10 second duration and 15% chance to proc. The duration of the fight was 300 seconds. Average attack spacing was 0,3988 (full T8 and armor penetration oriented gear).

I got the following table:
None - 66.9%
GT only - 10.3%
MR only - 10.3%
Both up - 12.5%

Hacking my attack spacing into your combat spreadsheet yields:
None - 68.6%
GT only - 11.0%
MR only - 11.0%
Both up - 9.40%

Standard error in my simulation of uptimes was around 0.15%. So the values we are getting are statistically different, but not materially different.

Updated Mutilate sheet posted. Bunch of new items, a couple new features, and a scattering of bug fixes. If you find additional problems, let me know.

Many, many thanks for this, Aldriana. Checked a few times today for an update to see if you'd include the new dagger.

Noticed that 3/3 Serrated Blades + 2/5 Presicion was chosen over 5/5 Presicion + 3/5 CQC by default in your latest mutilate spreadsheet. Setting it back to the "standard" 51/13/7 shows a decrease of DPS with my gear setup.

Have I missed something? I can't recall having seen any discussion around Serrated Blades being that good when you finaly get the 4 set bonus of Tier 8. Worth noting is that my gear has an awfully lot of hitrating due to having Blood of the Old God equipped, so I'm easily reaching poison hitcap without maxing out Presicion.

You almost answered your own question. Since the value of precision will drop with increasing amounts of hit rating (esp past poison cap), it becomes more a question of serrated blades vs. CQC and with 4pct8.5 set bonus, I'm guessing serrated blades pulls ahead

I ran into a problem while playing with the new sheet. When trying to determine the best in slot gear for Mutilate the following happends:

I am watching the different scores of the items and just go by the highest values.
I equip all 5 pieces of T8.
I check which offset item gives the biggest upgrade and equip it(seems to be shoulders).
I then make sure all the gems are correct and I get as close as I can to 214 expertise.
I recheck everything to make sure I got the highest possible scores.

and then it happends...

At this point my hitrating ungemmed is 194.
The calculationsheet shows that my poisonhitrating and critrating are both worth 1,66 AEP and armour penetartion is worth 1,31 AEP.
With only 2 points in precision I need 316 hitrating to get to the poisonhitcap.
The "Blood of the Old God" proc (228 AEP with this gear) is worth more then the "Mjolnir Runestone" proc (218 AEP with this gear) according to the calculationssheet.

So why is the gearsheet still giving a higher score to the "Mjolnir Runestone" then the "Blood of the Old God"? Cause when I change to the "Blood of the Old God" trinket my dps in the gearsheet goes up.

This makes me wonder if I am doing something wrong or that it is a bit harder to determine a best in slot gearset then I thought So are the scores more of a guideline or are they supposed to always show the best possible choices?

EDIT: I wanted to post this one in the simple questions thread can a moderator maybe move it there?

The scores are dynamic and fluctuate with your gear. Trust the final DPS number you're shown once you have set up all equipment. The static scores are a rough guideline there for snap judgements and quick reference - they are not gospel.

I experienced the same thing with item scoring. When putting 'draeni in group' to 0 and changing gear, Grim Toll's item score droped below quality of Mirror of Truth when it was rated higher before. I didnt fine tune but it seems peculiar with only 200 hit rating and no draeni Grim Toll would somehow become worse when you are further and further below the poison cap.

So, the EP are designed to be guidelines - they will not always be right. This is particularly true of trinkets, and when your hit rating is below the spell hit cap. It's designed to point you in the right direction but ultimately you're going to have to play with the options and see what actually results in the highest DPS number.

T8 bonus aside for a moment... has anyone actually tested the 2-pt Precision spec against the Serrated Blades spec yet and gotten some numbers in-game? The spreadsheet is indeed telling me that the default Serrated Blades spec is more dps than 2 Precision & 3 CQC but I can't help but be skeptical.

The 2pt-Precision spec involves being at BiS, or close to it. With BiS gear you're going to be at 283 hit from gear. Alliance rogues will only need to socket 8 hit rating to get spell capped again, and horde will need 32 hit rating to get capped again. Removing 3% of the 'wasted' hit from precision means a)you can go down and get a great benefit for your 4p, and b)it means you arent wasting hit on your gear.

I think you missed the point. The whole point of my question was so we could get something from practice and compare with theory (the spreadsheet.) And assuming worst-case scenarios on a test dummy with different specs is hardly reality. 15 minutes (ish) is usually enough for Recount to stabilize within a 10 dps range of numbers and usually gives me the answers I need when comparing slot upgrades. I may do a few runs later myself and get some averages. Of course, there's no question that SB becomes more favorable with 4pc T8 and close-to-BiS gear where max hit from talents is no longer required.

No, I understand your points, I'm just disagreeing. I am saying that the DPS test from "practice," as you put it, doesn't affect the validity of the spreadsheet at all. The thing is that the difference between the two specs is so small that RNG easily outweighs it. If you are just doing a 15 minute test, you could easily spec 51/13/7 and do 6500 DPS, then spec 51/7/13 and do 6400 DPS and decide that 51/13/7 is worse. However, the fact is that even when doing 15 minutes of solid combat, the RNG is still a bigger factor (100+ dps) than small spec differences will ever be. In order to actually "check" or compare against the spreadsheet, one would need several hundred hours of testing (as I said before) so that the RNG can be statistically eliminated.

Just as information, the difference between the two specs (51/13/7 and 51/7/13) in the current spreadsheet with the default gear is 41.1 DPS. This is 0.611% of your total DPS. I don't have the sample-size numbers in front of me, but I can guarantee that 15 minutes of combat is not enough to get anywhere near that level of accuracy, so the "test" is meaningless.

Also, there isn't any fight in the game right now that lasts 15 minutes of solid stand-and-fight combat, so how are you going to get that data? Testing DPS on a training dummy is irrelevant, unless you have a full raid with you buffing you and keeping up debuffs on the target, anything else is skewed by the lack of buffs to the point where it doesn't have any bearing on the spreadsheet.

Ticia, I completely see your logic here and why you think a dummy test is pointless. At this point, I think of the spreadsheet as more of a guide rather than the end all be all of what items are best. There are just too many combination of gear, enchants, gems and other factors that could alter your DPS in raid that may not be cooked into the spreadsheet. To simulate a actually raid fight through the use of a model I think would be nearly impossible as the actions of players within the raid cannot be simulated accurately.

Having said that I think that where we are all struggling is the notion that your current gear dictates what gear you should be aiming to collect. Gear in ulduar isn't going to fall out of the sky where you can pick and choose what you want.

Therefore, I was wondering if anyone ever considered altering the spreadsheet, perhaps a macro, that based on current gear/gem/enchant input could spit out a gear order, ranking the pieces of gear based on total increase in DPS. Just a thought. I am planning on giving it a shot over the weekend if i get a couple of hours to myself. I know that wow head has the ability to rank the gear for each slot based on EP values, however like i said above, it doesn't factor in the current gear you are wearing and your hit/expertise rating etc. The reason why i am interested is I would much rather pass on gear that drops to another rogue in guild if the upgrade the gear provides doesn't synergize well with my current gear...meaning it would be break my expertise cap, or provide me with armor pen and not haste as a mutilate rogue.

however, before i even attempt to do this, i was wondering if you even think that this would be worth it. I'm trying to wrap my head around how much of a impact breaking expertise CAP, or Hit CAP would have. Please let me know your thoughts. And I do admit that I may be way over thinking this but I wanted to see if anyone had similar ideas.

I'm just going by experience. All I'm saying is that my numbers and dps breakdown from 15 minutes usually coincide with spreadsheet data. Average dps shows a damped and converging trend on Recount, and that value fluctuation is within about 10 dps under/over the moving average after around 15 minutes. And surely the spec difference is more than 10 dps in theory. So in theory I should be able to make a pretty accurate call on which would be better in an arbitrary gear set. Even taking 2-3 runs of each spec and averaging them would reduce the RNG factor significantly. Enough to make a call.

Fully raid buffed, like you said, is a different story though.

But wouldn't you need to have the 4 bonus for T8 to correctly test this spec change on the dummy? I think that the whole point of the spec change was to maximize the 4 point bonus of the T8. Without the 4 point bonus, I would think that the 51/13/7 would outperform 100% of the time even on a dummy test.