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Old 04/29/09, 7:49 PM   #406
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
A updated version of the combat sheet with all the new items, modeling for same, and a few bug fixes is up. There will be a similar Mutilate version at some point - but, as the combat sheet is basically working, I figured I'd let people start using it rather than waiting for the Mutilate sheet to get finished.

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Old 04/29/09, 11:34 PM   #407
Wodahs
Don Flamenco
 
Human Rogue
 
Lightbringer
Swords look far better in this version Ald, than any other sheet. Is there new information about them?

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Old 04/30/09, 12:04 AM   #408
peeka
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Sentinels
I'd like to add some gear

I'm trying to add an Offhand, Librarians Paper cutter. I copy the formulas behind the scenes, put in the stats, and it seems to go well - until I take out the 1 in the equip column for the default dagger and move it to my dagger. at that point #div/0 (Divide by zero) appears everywhere and a few #Ref errors, too.
Help?

Last edited by peeka : 05/01/09 at 2:17 AM. Reason: typo

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Old 04/30/09, 12:06 AM   #409
Almehym
Raiding for Michelin Stars
 
Undead Rogue
 
Turalyon
The sheet is defaulted to sword spec. I found after swapping sword spec to CQC, I get expected values for Fists/Daggers vs Swords.

"Your orgasm ain't on the priorities list here broski. Now put on this pig mask and investigate my closet for truffles, bitch." -Lanky

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Old 04/30/09, 12:12 AM   #410
Unpudgeyball
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Jubei'Thos
Originally Posted by Aldriana View Post
A updated version of the combat sheet with all the new items, modeling for same, and a few bug fixes is up. There will be a similar Mutilate version at some point - but, as the combat sheet is basically working, I figured I'd let people start using it rather than waiting for the Mutilate sheet to get finished.
In the new mutilate sheet, is it possible for you to include modelling for a serrated blades based mutilate build? With 4pc t8.5, this may (or may not) prove viable.

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Old 04/30/09, 12:21 AM   #411
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
On Swords vs CQC: The sheet starts with my gear and spec in it. When the last version came out, I was fist/dagger. Now, I'm using swords. I realize this may be a bit confusing, but, ultimately, all of this is primarily for my own convenience, so if you don't like it you can write your own spreadsheet .

Regarding Paper Cutter: there are no competitive weapons that are 1.3 speed, so I haven't bothered to model them. I may add this at some point. I may not. We'll see.

Regarding Serrated Blades builds: maybe. For the moment I'm focusing mostly on new gear and bug fixes - significant modeling changes may end up waiting. That said, that one should be easy, so I may do it anyway.

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Old 04/30/09, 4:33 AM   #412
logist
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Kazzak (EU)
question

Hello, first time poster, long time reader as i heard someone say before

Anyhow totally noob kinda question, im combat speced, fist/dagger 15/51/5 with 5 point in CQC ofc, BiS T7. using the combat spreadsheet i was just wondering for a single item, now i have [Envoy of Mortality] in ranged, but gotten the [Rising Sun] last night. Now whats confusing me is that stats wise envoy is better?, but the spreadsheet shows just a little more dps with the rising sun.
or is hit rating worth it? with rising sun i have hit 274 isnt that too much? and yet shows dps increase with rising sun.

Basicaly im asking whats better for me rising sun or envoy of mortality? or should i just wait for [Giant's Bane] or [Twirling Blades] ?

also [Cindershard Ring] dropped could not check it in spreadsheet because its not in it but it seems to be almost BiS for combat rogue? i hacked some other ring and put in the stats from cindershard it seems to be a good boost.

i know im missing something here regarding the 3.1 and changes to rogues, pre 3.1 i had it all worked out regarding which items to take how to upgrade my gear gems all of it.. now its a bit confusing... thats why im posting thanks

Last edited by logist : 04/30/09 at 4:41 AM.

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Old 04/30/09, 4:42 AM   #413
saedo
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by logist View Post
Anyhow totally noob kinda question, im combat speced, fist/dagger 15/51/5 with 5 point in CQC ofc, BiS T7. using the combat spreadsheet i was just wondering for a single item, now i have [Envoy of Mortality] in ranged, but gotten the [Rising Sun] last night. Now whats confusing me is that stats wise envoy is better?, but the spreadsheet shows just a little more dps with the rising sun.
or is hit rating worth it? with rising sun i have hit 274 isnt that too much? and yet shows dps increase with rising sun.
Hit still gives dps past the poison cap. Not as much as before it, but it still does. So the spreadsheet is showing you it has better overall stats. Who cares if it's not one of your favorite stats.

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Old 04/30/09, 4:44 AM   #414
advanced
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Skullcrusher (EU)
After looking at the new mutilate spreadsheet i've noticed since ArP is now being put into the equasion would it be better to add the titanium impact band (extra socket meaning 49 agi is attainable or even 60 with a prismatic gem) outdoing most of the other rings available, especially since you can gain a nice amount of hit rating from your average Ulduar 10 or Naxx 25.

With Grim Toll procs i'm actually hitting around 800 ArP during boss fights which could be more with the ArP buff food, which brings into question if you're sitting around the same ArP as i am would it be worth dropping 80ap food for 40 arp or is it not worth it until that 40arp will cap you at 1039

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Old 04/30/09, 9:01 AM   #415
tetracycloide
Don Flamenco
 
tetracycloide's Avatar
 
Human Warlock
 
Quel'dorei
Originally Posted by advanced View Post
or is it not worth it until that 40arp will cap you at 1039
I know this doesn't answer your specific question but I felt it was worth pointing out that there is no ArPen cap. Not only does ArPen continue to reduce armor after the tooltip reads '100%' but mobs can actually be reduced to negative armor values given enough ArPen and debuffing.

My vanity is justified.

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Old 04/30/09, 9:28 AM   #416
Nerio
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Bleeding Hollow
Originally Posted by Wodahs View Post
Swords look far better in this version Ald, than any other sheet. Is there new information about them?
The new sheet has me <1 dps lower than the old one, and plugging in Malice/Hailstorm over CG/WD with the appropriate specs in both sheet raises my dps by around 30 dps, again <1 dps lower in the new sheet. I don't think anything has really changed except for there now being weapons to keep sword spec competitive. Once people start getting their Golden Saronite Dragons though, I think it's going to go back to how it was (unless there is a sword with similar stats I don't know about). That and the new 4 piece bonus, with a 5% crit increase affecting rupture as well.

Last edited by Nerio : 04/30/09 at 9:43 AM.

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Old 04/30/09, 11:58 AM   #417
Dontmindme
King Hippo
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Icecrown
I looked over the combat sheet and noticed the following:

Missing Items
Seed of Budding Carnage (Neck)
Deliverance (Ranged)
Caress of Insanity (MH Mace)
Void Sabre (OH Sword)

Typos/Errors
Broach of the Wailing Night (Neck) - Should be 46 ArP
Conqueror's Terrorblade Breastplate (Chest) - Should be 90 Stam
Soul Devouring Cinch (Waist) - Should be 126 AP
Mjjolhir Runestone (Trinket) - Bug somewhere as its hard to believe 83 Hit -> 103 Crit gives ~150 higher score with the same proc (unless it has been discovered the ICD is much lower than Grim Toll)

Thanks for this useful tool!

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Old 04/30/09, 12:26 PM   #418
Goldengiff
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Tichondrius
The tooltip for Runestone isn't correct, it actually procs for more ArP than Grim Toll.

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Old 04/30/09, 12:28 PM   #419
Caffeine
Von Kaiser
 
Caffeine's Avatar
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Kilrogg (EU)
Originally Posted by Dontmindme View Post
Mjjolhir Runestone (Trinket) - Bug somewhere as its hard to believe 83 Hit -> 103 Crit gives ~150 higher score with the same proc (unless it has been discovered the ICD is much lower than Grim Toll)
The proc actually gives 665 ArP: Mjolnir Runestone - Spell - World of Warcraft. More importantly, having one of the two trinkets equipped makes the other a lot stronger since the procs stack. You can see this in the sheet as well by un-equipping Grim Toll and equipping them in different orders.

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Old 04/30/09, 1:57 PM   #420
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
As people have noted: Mjolnir Runestone and Grim Toll synergize each other, and using both together is far more powerful than using either with some other trinket. I have a model of this behavior that I'm relatively happy with which is included in the new combat sheet; note, however, that the degree of synergy depends on fight length, which is why that parameter is included - the longer the fight goes, the more likely it is that the two trinkets get somewhat out of sync.

And, assuming this model is at all valid, we note that:

1) Grim Toll and Mjolnir Runestone are the two best trinkets for combat even disregarding the synergy, and
2) There's about 100 AP benefit above and beyond that from the synergy between them.

As an additional interesting consequence of this: utilizing both significantly increases the value of ArPen, pushing it above 2 in most cases and *significantly* above 2 with BIS gear (with the highest DPS setup I have found, the EP value of ArPen goes up to 2.3) - meaning stacking ArPen is, in the long run, going to be the way to go.

Note, however, that this is based on our current understanding of ArPen mechanics - particularly the fact that there has not yet been discovered an ArPen cap. While testing has been done past the cap, stacking ArPen in the long run proves to put us significantly further past the cap than has been tested - there are gear sets that hit 1800 ArPen with both trinkets proccing. And if that caps out at some point (or is hotfixed to do so), stacking ArPen will become a somewhat less viable strategy.

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