I agree, however swapping weapons proves to be a little more complicated. Can envenom proc IP? I couldn't find this in the sheet; if the answer is yes, I will keep looking. If the answer is no, then swapping poisons with dual webbed death changes nothing (from what I can think of).

Yes, Envenom can proc IP. This is why switching hands on poisons gives a DPS increase with the Mutilate bug gone.

As a ballpark figure for the DPS reduction: I'm finding that with the bug fixed, optimal gear is showing 5082 DPS right now. However, I'm not 100% confident that I've made all changes correctly, so I'm going to take a little more time to doublecheck things before releasing an updated sheet.

Could you check to see the effect on the deadly stack if you put Sinister Revenge in the off hand? It would be disappointing if the effect is large enough to force SR into the mh for DP up time, or necessitate a faster weapon.

I'm working on my own Monte-Carlo style simulator, and have found some advantage to having Vigor + glyph relative to allowing higher energy pooling. This is on non-Murderable mobs, taking the point from Murder.

I can't seem to get your sheet open properly in OpenOffice, so I'm curious as to what you're doing with energy pooling and if there any tweaks that might test my results.

I'm surprised that you're having trouble with OO, because I *wrote* this in OO, so it really ought to work.

I don't really have a formal pooling model in the sheet; I've just made some assumptions about what pooling can and can't do for you (i.e. first Mutilate after Envenom usually gets the buff, 2nd one usually doesn't; Envenom buffs can be made to not overlap; etc.) and worked from there. A better pooling model would be helpful in terms of modeling the value of Vigor and the like, but my instinct is that the damage gains from these talents are relatively small and hence usually not worthwhile relative to the DPS talents available.

Updated version in the first post. This has the OH double proc bug removed, plus a couple other bugfixes. There's also support (more or less) for both IP MH and DP MH setups. As usual, if you find bugs, let me know.

Good catch. Fixed.

Not really a bug, but Valorous Bonescythe Breastplate is (still) missing its attributes.

Thanks for updating this. It looks like for the oh, murder is better than SR, and to satisfy my curiosity, I plugged in LPC as well and it ended up being worse than SR, though only due to the miserable stats... it was close.

we know that for poison hit:
17% is 446.0 (rounded up)
12% with precision 314.8
11% with draenei 288.6

poison is spell attack. so does poison also work with the moonkin's aura and improved faerie fire??


i have 306 hit with precision+improved poison, but my instant and deadly poison attacking still have Miss on bossdummy. why??

didnt find answer with search >.<.

That is more of a question for the simple questions/answers thread stickied on this forum.

Yes misery and imp faerie fire affect poison hit.

It would be difficult to tell. If you're curious about the effects at a certain level of gear, plug in the items yourself and check it out.

Hmm, not sure how I missed that. Fixed.

With the correct stats for it in, it appears that using Leggings of the Honored as your nonset piece gets within about 10 DPS of using Chestguard of the Recluse as your nonset piece, which is worth noting for those of you who haven't managed to get the Maly chest yet. Using Frosted Adroit is another couple DPS behind, but still reasonably competitive. However, as far as I can tell, none of the recent changes have actually affected the BIS gear list in any substantive way.

Is there any special reason Footwraps of Vile Deceit are enabled over Dawnwalkers by default?

Because Footwraps of Vile Deceit are better.

(You forgot to remove the extra gem for using Vile Deceit over Dawnwalkers)

Fundamentally, Dawnwalkers aren't really that much worse than Vile Deceit - in particular, Vile Deceit + Thrusting Bands + Ring of Invincibility is only about a tenth of a percent behind the default setup in the spreadsheet in terms of raid DPS - and that's partly just the way you come out relative to the Expertise cap. But in terms of optimality, the setup in the sheet by default is the highest I've found, which is why it's what's listed.

Note, however, that FoFF has weaknesses in terms of requiring a sustained fight, so for day to day use I prefer Mirror in practice. But, if you're looking at the Brutallus-type DPS situation - 6 min of uninterrupted DPS - it would be a better choice.

Note that when you don't have access to the hit aura provided by draenei (read: horde), I've found Thrusting bands with all agility gems except for one rare expertise to be the optimal setup, since without the aura you dip below the poison hit cap.

For non-Draenei group, Dawnwalkers/Thrusting Bands setup is very close to Sinner's Bindings/Vile Deceit - 5151.07 DPS with Vile Deceit/Sinner's Bindings and one Glinting gem versus 5184 for Dawnwalkers/Thrusting Bands. That's the closest I got while using Dawnwalkers; the problem with them is that you end up with a lot of hit rating that's not-optimal, compared to the 234 hit rating / 214 expertise of Vile Deceit/Sinner's.

Thrusting Bands and Sinner's Bindings are pretty much interchangeable for Horde rogues: Thrusting Bands being only 0.1 DPS ahead of Sinner's is what I found (Ring of Invincibility). The only reason Thrusting Bands isn't way better is because of bad expertise rounding (couldn't get a good number no matter how much I tweaked).

(By the way, thanks for adding the row or whatever it's called that says which stat is in its respective column. It's a huge help!)

No matter how much I try to tweak it I still find Thrusting Bands and Vile Deceit with only one rare expertise gem to be optimal for horde.

Me too, but the Thrusting Bands setup is only 0.1 DPS ahead of the Sinner's Bindings setup for me.

Hi,

I've downloaded both spreadsheets posted. Some of it's intuitive, some not. I'm not familiar with building WoW models myself, but am interested in utilizing those made. Those who know could you explain:

1. Are formulas plug/chug avialable. ie can you customize stats within spreadsheet and achieve accurate, near accurate numbers... if so what can one to do understand the mechanics a little better

2. Understanding cycles/refreshing cycles-- is there a particular mod you use that helps with this
Trying to understand how various cycles max dps.

3. Id anybody is bored could you make a term sheet--for those who don't know all the EJ terms used. Obvisiously don't expect anything to indepth, but something workable that is sufficient.

Thanks

Yes, spreadsheets are intended for you to customize them (i.e. putting in your stats) and give you an estimated DPS number in perfect or near perfect enviromental conditions.

As to your other questions, please refer to the appropriate topics (Simple Questions / Simple Answers and Pocket Guide to WotLK). Just read the first pages and you should be satisfied...