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Old 09/11/09, 9:24 PM   #1226
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
It works for me, so all I can suggest is that you try again in a few minutes.

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Old 09/11/09, 10:14 PM   #1227
Nevalis
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Draka
I am also having trouble getting the link to download, it takes me to the page but from there nothing happens. I also tried waiting for about 20 min now.

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Old 09/11/09, 10:22 PM   #1228
Thaela
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Khaz'goroth
It worked fine for me

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Old 09/11/09, 10:47 PM   #1229
Tofuu
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Alterac Mountains
Given exactly the same gears, when I switched from the beta 2 sheet to beta 3 sheet, the estimated dps dropped by about 170. Is there any particular reason for this? The Use 3.2.2 ArPen conversion is set at 0, indicating it is chosen to not be considered. Please let me know if I've missed anything.

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Old 09/11/09, 10:54 PM   #1230
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Unless your gear is something pretty wierd, I wouldn't expect to see any differences of that magnitude - there are some bug fixes, but they're most applicable in weird edge cases or otherwise minor - for instance, the DPS difference between the sheets for me is about .1 DPS.

So: either it's a bug, or you have your gear/talents/glyphs entered incorrectly in one or the other. So if I were you, I'd double check the latter, and then if you still can't find it, email me both versions of the sheet and we'll work from there.

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Old 09/11/09, 11:04 PM   #1231
Tofuu
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Alterac Mountains
Thank you, I am just posting again for anyone who might have made the mistake I made. The problem was that I neglected the fact that Aldriana's default beta 3 had eviscerate only as its rotation whereas I still have my 4 piece tier 8. So the reason I saw a 170 dps drop was due to the fact that I had 3/3 imp eviscerate, just switch the talents if you ever see a change in the Cycle tab. The problem I had was not due to any bug in the new sheet.

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Old 09/12/09, 12:00 AM   #1232
EdgeOfSanity
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
<Bad>
Dragonmaw
The link to the beta 3 version posted earlier seems to still be broken. All i receive is a blank page when clicking the download link.

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Old 09/12/09, 12:06 AM   #1233
Tofuu
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Alterac Mountains
If it sends you to a blank page, refresh the page and you will receive the download. At least that's how I fixed the "broken link" problem.

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Old 09/12/09, 12:17 AM   #1234
Cooljo
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Originally Posted by Tofuu View Post
If it sends you to a blank page, refresh the page and you will receive the download. At least that's how I fixed the "broken link" problem.
doesn't work for me :|

And Aldriana, I don't know if u fixed it in the new beta spreadsheet, but in your old combat sheet I had an issue.
While wielding a mace (and probably a sword) as a human I didn't get the benefit of 3 expertise. This wouldn't ba a big one, but when I tried to edit the "Calcs" I didn't find an easy way to modify the dodge neglect only for the MH. So in my case, as I wield a mace in the MH but a dagger in the OH, it just gives me a weird feeling. I can either lose too much dps in not letting the sheet think I'm not capped with both weapons or gain too much dps in pretending I'm capped with both.
But I think its not a major issue, although there should be the possibility for the sheet to figure out if s.o. weilds a sword/mace and is human, as for other race/weapon combinations...

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Old 09/12/09, 12:46 AM   #1235
Valyrra
Von Kaiser
 
Valyrra's Avatar
 
Undead Rogue
 
Emerald Dream
Tried on multiple browsers still coming up as a dead link and a blank page with no download.

Edit: Got it after awhile, spamming f5 for it to eventually pop up helped.

Last edited by Valyrra : 09/12/09 at 3:30 AM.

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Old 09/12/09, 12:47 AM   #1236
Skah
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Skywall
Originally Posted by Tofuu View Post
If it sends you to a blank page, refresh the page and you will receive the download. At least that's how I fixed the "broken link" problem.
Just hitting Refresh (F5) didn't work for me, but using Ctrl+F5 did work so others might want to try that if they have problems.

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Old 09/12/09, 3:06 AM   #1237
Rambaral
Piston Honda
 
Human Rogue
 
Bronzebeard
worked fine for me, first time. as of 11:00 pm PDT.

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Old 09/12/09, 3:44 AM   #1238
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Okay, suggestion? Let's drop all the reports of it working and not for various people. I think we've gotten the point by now - it works for some people, it doesn't work for others. The people who it doesn't work for can try refreshing, or playing with their browser settings, or a different browser, or trying again later, or whatever, but I really don't think we need to keep hearing about it.

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Old 09/12/09, 4:03 AM   #1239
Nerio
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Bleeding Hollow
The only thing I've noticed that is somewhat substaintial is that switching points around to get Serrated Blades is benefitting me a bit more with this sheet. 7/51/13 instead of 15/51/5 is providing about 90 dps increase with this sheet and only around 40 with the last sheet. The talent is lowering the ep value of armor pen versus raising it before. I'm guessing with the cycle feedback there were changes made internally.

For Volus, I found it much easier to just use this in Open Office for mac. Excel for mac doesn't seem very compatible with anything not made with it.

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Old 09/12/09, 9:39 AM   #1240
inph
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Al'Akir (EU)
I can get the 1.3 beta 3 sheet to throw errors in OpenOffice if I set Imp SnD to 0 with the gear setup and options you ship with the sheet.

With my particular gear setup I've been playing with I've managed to get it to throw errors back with Imp SnD set to 1.

Happens as well with 1.3 beta 2, however 1.3 beta 1 doesnt error (although I really havent tested it much).

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Old 09/12/09, 2:47 PM   #1241
Tofuu
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Alterac Mountains
Aldriana, I just have a question regarding high rupture cycle: You said earlier that high rupture cycle assumes that rupture is almost always up and use eviscerate only when combo point generation allows. Am I correct to say that means the high rupture cycle dps estimate assumes 100 percent rupture time or is it in fact not necessarily 100 percent but just much higher than the low rupture cycle of 70 percent uptime?

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Old 09/12/09, 4:27 PM   #1242
nonmagical
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Laughing Skull
It depends on which sheet you are using, Tofuu. The 1.2 sheet models 80% rupture uptime, while the new beta sheets model 95% uptime.

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Old 09/12/09, 4:45 PM   #1243
Cottonpoof
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Kul Tiras
How do the spreadsheets model killing spree? As far as I can tell there are three options.
1. Use KS on cooldown.
2. Wait for a Runestone proc.
3. Use it right as SnD fades off.

1 will result in the most killing spree attacks, but 3 seems the most energy efficient. 2 would make the killing spree damage the highest, but with the internal CD on runestone it would effectively make the cooldown on KS 1:30-1:40 instead of the glyphed 1:15.

Any insights?

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Old 09/12/09, 5:55 PM   #1244
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
The goal of the high rupture cycle is to get as close to 100% rupture uptime as possible. In practice, due to the irregularities of combo point generation and the realities of latency, actually achieving 100% uptime is impractical; hence, the sheet makes an estimate of how often rupture will drop and for how long. In practice, this works out to something over 90% uptime in most cases.

As for modeling Killing Spree: currently the sheet simply models it being used on cooldown. Using it during trinket procs is also an option - it's not immediately clear to me which is better, so for the moment I'm simply using the first, which is quite a bit easier to model. I don't see any reason why using it when SnD drops would matter.

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Old 09/12/09, 10:48 PM   #1245
RazorOye
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Arygos
Aldriana - thanks for the work on the spreadsheet. I've been using them for a while now. It's only with this beta that I've had my first question when I checked out tonight because I'm stuck in between gemming cycles since I've returned to raiding for the first time post-BC.

After plugging in my gear to work on my gems in preparation for the ArPen nerf, the recommended cycle returned a recommendation I'd not encountered before: "Eviscerate Only." After reading the past few posts regarding a rupture-less cycle, I'm assuming that's where I am now, gear-wise.

But the post above regarding the DoT-style priority casting had me a little confused - is the "Eviscerate Only" to be taken as all other finishers eschewed in favor of Evis. But in practice, how does that usually translate - a 5s/5e/Xe? or something along those lines.

I've searched the thread but can't find a clear answer and I'm hesitant to ask at the risk of infraction, but I just can't seem to settle on an answer that I feel I understand clearly.

Perhaps I'm overcomplicating something exceedingly simple.

Thanks -

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Old 09/13/09, 12:39 AM   #1246
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
What is the strategy used in the sheet to achieve 90% rupture uptime without sacrificing total DPS? I am trying to understand what should I do in real combat to achieve that high rupture uptime without sacrificing my DPS.

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Old 09/13/09, 2:18 AM   #1247
Cottonpoof
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Kul Tiras
Originally Posted by Aldriana View Post
As for modeling Killing Spree: currently the sheet simply models it being used on cooldown. Using it during trinket procs is also an option - it's not immediately clear to me which is better, so for the moment I'm simply using the first, which is quite a bit easier to model. I don't see any reason why using it when SnD drops would matter.
Because killing spree makes both weapons attack every .5 seconds, weapon speed doesn't matter, so during that 2.5 seconds, having SnD up is pointless. By using KS in between SnDs you can get the benefit of the haste during the full duration of SnD. If you use KS during SnDs you're effectively lowering the DPE of SnD.

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Old 09/13/09, 2:36 AM   #1248
Hemophobe
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Eonar
Originally Posted by Cottonpoof View Post
Because killing spree makes both weapons attack every .5 seconds, weapon speed doesn't matter, so during that 2.5 seconds, having SnD up is pointless. By using KS in between SnDs you can get the benefit of the haste during the full duration of SnD. If you use KS during SnDs you're effectively lowering the DPE of SnD.
You're still white attacking during Killing Spree, it's not a strange weapon speed lock. It's 10 (5 MH and 5 OH) additional attacks, much like Sinister Strike is one additional attack that doesn't interfere with your swing timer.

Last edited by Hemophobe : 09/13/09 at 2:44 AM.

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Old 09/13/09, 4:49 AM   #1249
greenjello
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Cottonpoof View Post
Because killing spree makes both weapons attack every .5 seconds, weapon speed doesn't matter, so during that 2.5 seconds, having SnD up is pointless. By using KS in between SnDs you can get the benefit of the haste during the full duration of SnD. If you use KS during SnDs you're effectively lowering the DPE of SnD.
The .5 second weapon attacks count as yellow attacks, but your white attacks continue during killing spree. Since all damage is increased while killing spree is active, it is actually quite beneficial to your dps to use it with as many haste buffs active as possible (slice and dice is a given, blade flurry and haste pots if timing permits).

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Old 09/13/09, 5:48 AM   #1250
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by Mavanas View Post
What is the strategy used in the sheet to achieve 90% rupture uptime without sacrificing total DPS? I am trying to understand what should I do in real combat to achieve that high rupture uptime without sacrificing my DPS.
The working theory for a steady-state cycle is this:

1) Perform a 5pt Rupture.
2) Build CP long enough that the SnD resulting is long enough to cover the rupture, plus some reasonable amount of buffer time thereafter; or until the previous SnD is about to drop. If done correctly, it will always be the former and never the latter. If you misjudge the first, your following cycle may run into the latter case.
3) Perform said SnD. This will usually be 3 or 4 points, and involve some energy pooling.
4) Start building CP again. Assess how many CP you have relative to how much rupture time left. If you can get to 3+ CP in time to drop another finisher and still build CP for the Rupture more or less in time, drop the largest eviscerate you safely can. Otherwise, just build CP for the rupture and pool till it's time to do so, burning a SS at 5CP if necessary to avoid capping.
5) Rupture as soon as you can after the previous one drops.

This works out to a cycle notated something like 5r3s[3-5e]. I'm not very happy with it, as it's hard to execute and hard to model, but done correctly it should yield a DPS increase with 4/5 T8.

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