I'd like to see Hysteria included as a possible buff. I'm also not sure whether "Tricks on Cooldown" means receiving it, giving it, or both.

Tricks on cooldown is using it, to give an estimate of how much DPS you lose from doing it and thence allow you to estimate how much raid DPS you potentially gain. For instance, with the default gear in the sheet (mine), turning Tricks off boosts my damage from 8160 to 8254.2 - hence, tricksing is a 94.2 DPS loss for me in exchange for a 3% gain on my tricks target; thus, provided my DPS target is doing more than 3140 DPS, it's a net rDPS gain to spam it on cooldown. It may surprise you to learn that most members of my guild do more than this, meaning using it is generally worthwhile.

There's no option for receiving tricks as it's just a flat % DPS boost; there's not going to be any EP implications from having it or not.

Hysteria, on the other hand... yeah, we can probably do that. Would people prefer to enter it as "number of Hysterias gained per fight" or "number of DKs using Hysteria on me on cooldown"? i.e., if there are two blood DKs and it's a 300 sec fight, would you rather enter "number of DKs using Hysteria: 2" or "total Hysterias per fight: 4"?

What would be a "short-lived" target? A target that is dead is less than 30 sec?

For example in NRB, Obviously the snobolds are short-lived targets, would acidmaw and dreadscale be considered short lived also?

Thanks-

So, the shorter the fight gets, the better WP performs, relatively speaking. In the extreme example: DP can't possibly do damage to a target in less than 3 seconds, while WP can. So on a short *enough* fight, WP wins at any gear level.

In terms of how short a fight needs to be to make it worthwhile, that sort of depends on how big the damage difference is. When I said "short lived" I was initially thinking of, specifically, Jaraxxus Hard portals and Valkyr shields; both of these are a controlled burn on a single target for 15 seconds or less, and you won't necessarily have DP pre-stacked in either case (for portals, you definitely don't. For shields, it depends on which one shields). And given that those particular mechanics are the most significant DPS checks in their respective fights, there's a compelling case to be made.

Snobolds, it might be noted, are also debatable in this category - they're certainly short-lived, but as they're not the primary DPS check of their fight, it's a little bit more debatable.

As for things that live a little bit longer but still not very long - Worms, and even Icehowl to some extent (as the stun + charge is very likely to drop your stack), it's going to really come down to the specific numbers. To be honest, I've never really run the numbers on it - lets knock off a quick ballpark figure:

In my current gear (the default in 1.3 beta 4), I do 8160 DPS (8160.5 with a bit of resocketing) with Deadly Poison, and 8135.1 (after resocketing) with Wound. Thus, using WP costs me 25.4 steady-state DPS.

With full haste buffs (including SnD), my OH swing timer is around .7 seconds, and each has around a 30% * spell hit chance * white hit chance = 27% chance to proc poison. Thus, on average, it takes 1/.27 = 3.67 swings to get a proc, which takes about 2.53 seconds; thus, at the beginning of a new target, we on average spend (in very rough terms) 2.53 seconds and 0 stacks, 2.53 at one stack, 2.53 at two stacks, and so forth, such that in total we lose 38.01 stack-ticks of poison damage to restacking; this is equivalent to the damage loss of 7.6 seconds of poison damage, which works out to about 3810 damage. Thus, making up the restacking penalty takes, on average, 3810/25.4 = 150 seconds.

So: on any target that I'm on for less than 150 seconds, I will do more damage with Wound than Deadly. Note that this doesn't apply to total damage in target-switching situations; for instance, on Snobolds, I will clearly do more damage to Snobold with Wound, but my Deadly will still be ticking on Gormok as I do so, which counterbalances this to some extent. But it does seem to me that WP probably would be better for me on, um, Beasts phase 2 and 3, Jaraxxus Hard portals, Faction Champions, Twins shields, and (depending on strat) perhaps some parts of Anub'arak as well. So, upon contemplation, there's actually a pretty compelling case to be made in favor of double wound even at at 25 DPS difference. And given that that difference drops to single digits by full BIS, double-wound does very much appear to be the wave of the future.

Note that a similar advantage applies to Eviscerate-only cycles vs Rupture cycles, which may be worth keeping in mind as you near the relevant gear breakpoint.

Thanks for the response.

I am already at the point where my gear dictates an "eviscerate only" cycle. With all the movement in the ToC fights I think the combination of WP/WP and Eviscerate only cycle, while on the spreadsheet may show lower DPS, will in reality give me a higher DPS output.

The way I am distinguishing between axe/swords/maces, etc... I am doing a check to see if something is marked with a "1" in rows 179 thru 188. All these are swords and/or maces. I am a human, so I don't care about axes/fist.

I am using this calc "=SUMPRODUCT((Gear!$E$179)Gear!$E$188))*IF(B2=1,0.75,0)" on the Races tab. I have the Dodge Rate row in the Calcs tab editted to the following calc "=MAX(6.5-RacialExp-1.25*WeaponExpertise-B7/32.78998947,0)". Whereas, "RacialExp" is my 0.75 if I have a sword/mace equipped and human selected.

Now, I know this throws off my calcs for white attacks (because I am using a dagger in my offhand) by a pretty good margin (I haven't figured out how to figure out how to make dodge rating apply to mainhand only and offhand only). But it does give me good calcs on my sinister strikes and evis. (NOTE: I would not make these changes on your sheet, as the DPS numbers can be incorrect. I have made these changes in a extra copy of the sheet, to tell basically which mhand is more of a upgrade depending on my current expertise level.)

Perhaps if we could have a Dodge Rate calcs for each type of attack, it would be easier to model. For instance, if I had zero expertise, sword/mace in mhand and dagger in ohand. I would get the following Dodge Rate.

Dodge Rate Sinister Strike = 3.25
Dodge Rate Evis = 3.25
Dodge Rate MH white = 3.25
Dodge Rate OH white = 4.00

This could be applied the same way as crit is applied for each seperate attack.

It's not that hard, I've been doing it for Axes and Fists myself for awhile. There's an empty column AO, I fill in "1" for Fists and Axes. 1 and 2 could work to distinguish Human vs Orc. AO346 and AO347 then follow the previous column's logic, though here would be a good place to check Race vs weapon and get it to 1 for +exp and 0 for not. Add two rows to the Calcs sheet (I prefer under weapon specs) following weapon spec logic for AO346 and AO347.

Add a new dodge rate line below the current one, and modify both to use the previously created columns so you have MH and OH dodge rates. Same thing for P(White Hit). Then the key is finding rows that reference P(White Hit) (currently row 75) and if they're using OH calculations switch it to the new row added for OH white hits. This would be rows:

OH WP/IP DPS
OH DP P Value
MH White Atts/Sec (the last one currently referencing B$44 for OH procs of sword spec)
WP/Sec (the last one, which is OH and checks for WP use)
IP/Sec (the last one, which is OH and checks for IP use)
OH White Mult

The sheet already does a good job of distinguishing MH vs OH attacks, it's just that the OH attacks are all referencing "Dodge Rate" instead of "OH Dodge Rate".

Edit: Late addition, forgot to include B$x in my search, so there's a bunch more rows to update.

If this results in an infraction so be it, i'll apologise in advance just in case.

I'm a little shell-shocked how much things have changed with the recent update to the combat sheet. I'm currently trying to get a definite handle on when the switch to evis-only cycle is likely to occur. Switching talent points, glyphs and 10 to 12 gems each gear upgrade would start to get a little wearing after a while.

Just to cover the basics:
The evis only setup relies on imp evis at the expense of blood splatter and 1 point in Ruthlessness. I would guess it also favours strongly moving back to full Relentless strikes rather than 2 points + vile poisons (15/51/5 rather than 18/51/2)?

What are the main gear elements that would nessessitate the switch? Is it the 4piece T9? High ArP?

I'm FULLY aware this can be spreadsheeted but there's a chance to miss the key elements due to strange gear combinations and i'm just interested in a fairly simple breakdown of what the switch revolves around. Having checked my current gear I still get a high rupture cycle as my best DPS.

Just to be clear also (I think i've read the relevant posts but I MAY have missed this) does "low rupture" mean switching to Evis and using spare combo points in Rupture or still Rupture>Evis?

Would someone mind explaining to me how you're getting your EP Values for the spreadsheets? I apologize if this has been asked before I've tried searching around, but "ep" is too short of a word for the search criteria, and google proved to be less than helpful. If this has been answered before and someone knows the link I would appreciate it. Thanks

The reason for switching to ruptureless cycles is two-fold. First, losing 4-piece t8 bonus hurts rupture damage. Whether this alone is enough to switch to an eviscerate only cycle you can doublecheck in the latest version, but I'd guess it is probably not enough. The main reason is high armor penetration which makes it so that talented and glyphed eviscerate starts doing more damage than talented and glyphed rupture. Using Mjolnir and armor penetration gems is taking you closer to the point where you'd switch to eviscerate-only rotation, but you'd have to check your own gear in the spreadsheet to see if you have enough armor penetration to do the switch.
4-piece t9 increases the share of sinister strike damage in your total damage, it should not affect your choice of finishers.
2-piece t9 adds less than 2% to your dps if you use rupture in your rotation, so it's conceivable that you find a point before picking up 2-pieces of t9 where you are at soft armor pen cap and eviscerate-only cycles give more dps. Then you pick up 2-pieces t9 and it throws it back to rupture-eviscerate rotation. All of that you need to open a spreadsheet and check on your own, there are many possible combinations. I hope this explanation clarifies it enough so you can do your own testing.

just had a quick question about the latest spreadsheet, going from 4pc t8 to 2 pc t9 [shoulders and chest] results in a loss off around 150 dps or so, however if I go from 4pc t8 to 2 pc t9 [ shoulders and helmet] I gain +500 dps, is the spreadsheet doing something weird b/c I didn't think the helmet was that damn good.

Yes I understand that, but keeping everything the same [rupture glyph, rupture spec, gems and spec ect ect], simply changing my t8 helm to t9 helm gives a +500 dps boost, which I seriously doubt is correct

Currently 4pc t8 - dps 7961.3 dps
change helm from conq terrorblade helmet to Hood Of Lethal Intent, 7741.2 dps [lose 4pc bonus, lose dps, makes sense]
change helm from Conq Terrorblade helmet to Garona's Helm of Triump, 8444.9 dps [lose 4 pc bonus, still specced into rupture]

doesn't this have to be a glitch since I don't see how changing one piece of gear can give you that big of a boost without changing anything else. [and I think we'd all be wearing the t8 helmet if it was correct]

Edit - I re-downloaded the spreadsheet and inputted everything again without using the Combat Companion spreadsheet, and it gave me the correct results, bug w/ combat companion spreadsheet?

My combat companion spreadsheet hasn't yet been updated (by me at least) to work with the new 1.3 beta sheets. I'm not sure if anything needs changing, but I assume it does because I believe the DPS cell moved in this version. I've been trying to get to it, but haven't had a chance yet. I'm also trying to include the alliance-horde change contributed by one of the users, which will take me a short while to look into and include.

Total Hysterias per fight seems like it covers any possible confusion, it just requires people to do a little bit of math.

I was going through the beta 4 spreadsheet last night and a curious piece of gear popped up - Vest of Calamitous Fate (+54 ArP). For my current gear gemming ArP, not only is it rated higher than Shifting Shadows (+93 ArP), it's about a 30 DPS difference. My question is, why is haste (+90) from VoCF rated so high, even higher than ArP before 3.2.2 nerf?

My trinkets are DMC:G and Death's Choice, which shouldn't put me anywhere near the ArP cap. A little light shone on this would be appreciated.

Check your cycle and your offhand poison indicators (I'm assuming this is with 1.3 beta 4) - if you've moved to evisc only and wound poison offhand, haste gets a very hefty bump.

So, I'm unclear as to exactly what pieces you're referring to, as Vest of Calamitous Fate has no ArPen at all, and neither version of Vest of Shifting Shadows has 93 ArPen. And if we're comparing hard mode piece to hard mode piece (or easy to easy) note that they're of different ilvls, so even if the stat distribution on Calamitous Fate isn't quite as good, it has more stats in total to compensate and thus frequently scores more highly. Briefly stated: don't get hung up too much on any one stat - particularly at high gear levels, total quantity of stats tends to be far more important than the value of any particular one.

If, on the other hand, we're comparing the pieces of equal ilvl - 245 to 245, then something weird might be going on, and I'd welcome additional details so I can diagnose it further, as for me at least the 245 Shifting Shadows piece is quite a bit ahead.

In Beta 4, I can get the sheet to display errors by changing Imp SnD to 1:

4pc T8
Glyph of Rupture
Imp SnD 1

Ruthlessness 3 + Blood Spatter 1 = T9 2/5 Err:502
Ruthlessness 3 + Blood Spatter 2 = Optimal, upgrades, all EP values either #N/A or Err:502
Ruthlessness 2 + Blood Spatter 2 = T7 4/5 and T9 2/5 Err:502

Doesn't seem to happen with all sets of gear, and you're logged out in PvP gear atm. Could you post or email me a copy of your sheet so I can look at the setup that's causing the problem? Thanks.

Looks like a bug with use of the companion spreadsheet. Because I just tried it out with my gear setup, and everything T9 is a dps loss until I get full 4pcT9.25.

I might be missing something obvious so please bear with me.

In the beta 4 sheet without touching anything it suggests deft ametrine (haste & agi) in all yellow slots.

With that gear Ald has 181 haste without gems and haste ep is at 1,7493. Whenever I replace one of the 3 items that have haste, the ep of haste goes up (e.g. 1,7827 if legs are replaced with non haste legs). If I follow the advice of the sheet and socket deft instead of deadly, with every deft added the value of haste goes down and at 5th deft (181 haste from items + 50 haste from gems = 231 total haste). the sheet starts to suggest deadly again.

Why is this happening?

I believe it has to do with this post.